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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Wfco amp test.. What are you pendant guys getting?

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Ralph Cramden

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Posted: 10/10/17 06:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SidecarFlip wrote:

You mean someone there speaks English? I'm amazed.



Me too lol.

Do yourself a favor. Rip out the DC side of the WFCO and replace it with Boondocker or Progressive Dynamics direct fit replacement from Bestconverter.com The WFCO will go into bulk mode someday, and when it does it will boil off the electrolyte ruining your batteries. The manufacturers use them because they are cheap, not because they are the better than sliced bread.


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BFL13

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Posted: 10/10/17 06:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OP, you are really mixed up as to "Bulk" meaning. Or "Boost" for that matter.

The converter can do its 55 amps or a bit more like 60ish, at 13.6v. That is not the "Boost" you are looking for. Your batteries need to "gas" to get fully charged and " gassing voltage" is 14.x, not 13.6 even close.

What you want is to get that 60 amps at 14.x volts. To get that with a "real" 55 amp charger, you would need to connect it to the batteries with about 3 ft (one way distance--both wires being 3 ft) of #4 wire. There is no way on Earth you can get near that with 15ft of thinner wire!!!! Not even with a "real" charger.

OK, so what to do. IMO, keep the existing WFCO as your converter when on shore power. It runs everything just fine at 13.6v. and it will float a charged battery just fine too.

BUT for battery charging to full and for doing 50-90s off-grid with a generator you need a separate charger that is a real one, that will get those batts done up as soon as possible. You can buy a converter and make it a portable charger you clamp onto the battery posts and plug it into the gen (or the rig if it has a built in gen making the 120v)

I like these things and use them myself, but you can modify any brand converter with wire clamps in its terminals. This one is a bit more expensive because it has the adjustable voltage feature, which is very worthwhile. Don't worry about the 75 amps on the two or three 24s. They will love it if low, or else just will not take that many if at a higher SOC starting the recharge. --The batts protect themselves as needed.

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/powermax-pmbc-75adj-converter


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lawrosa

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Posted: 10/10/17 07:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

The WFCO will go into bulk mode someday, and when it does it will boil off the electrolyte ruining your batteries.


How so? Do you think its in bulk mode cranking in 40 plus amps?

How will I boil off the batt electrolyte? 40 amps is 40 amps.


Its a misconception to change the lower end is what I am trying to show. ( IMO) And I believe the PD units taper amps too fast where the wfco hold longer.. ( from readings)

So I ask anyone to show what amps they get with thier PD's.

Maybe I shouldnt bother asking what people are actually getting out of the Pd's and such..

I think this guy upgraded and got similar results. So he upgraded his wiring to 3 gauge...

If you read the comments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wQm4Y3iWnU&t=2s


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lawrosa

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Posted: 10/10/17 07:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BFL13 wrote:

OP, you are really mixed up as to "Bulk" meaning. Or "Boost" for that matter.

The converter can do its 55 amps or a bit more like 60ish, at 13.6v. That is not the "Boost" you are looking for. Your batteries need to "gas" to get fully charged and " gassing voltage" is 14.x, not 13.6 even close.

What you want is to get that 60 amps at 14.x volts. To get that with a "real" 55 amp charger, you would need to connect it to the batteries with about 3 ft (one way distance--both wires being 3 ft) of #4 wire. There is no way on Earth you can get near that with 15ft of thinner wire!!!! Not even with a "real" charger.

OK, so what to do. IMO, keep the existing WFCO as your converter when on shore power. It runs everything just fine at 13.6v. and it will float a charged battery just fine too.

BUT for battery charging to full and for doing 50-90s off-grid with a generator you need a separate charger that is a real one, that will get those batts done up as soon as possible. You can buy a converter and make it a portable charger you clamp onto the battery posts and plug it into the gen (or the rig if it has a built in gen making the 120v)

I like these things and use them myself, but you can modify any brand converter with wire clamps in its terminals. This one is a bit more expensive because it has the adjustable voltage feature, which is very worthwhile. Don't worry about the 75 amps on the two or three 24s. They will love it if low, or else just will not take that many if at a higher SOC starting the recharge. --The batts protect themselves as needed.

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/powermax-pmbc-75adj-converter


If I went that route I would just get an IOTA that does 14.7 bulk and 14.2 absorp and put in the passthrough with 4 ft # 2 cable. And plug the gen into that for charging...

http://www.iotaengineering.com/dlsx.htm

time2roll

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Posted: 10/10/17 07:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have read several reports of WFCO going 5 to 10 amps above rating if you have enough battery and actually get boost mode. Mine did before it decided to just remain in boost indefinitely.

PD seems to sag a bit and the full amp rating is not at 14.4 volts but rather 13.2 so get 10+ amps rating higher than you expect.

IOTA by all reports I have seen is regulated right to the rated amps at any voltage. 14.7 boost is a bit of a misnomer as it will shift to bulk within 15 minutes of exceeding 14.6. Although I do like the IOTA program except the float seems a bit high for a hot climate.

Powermax drops similar to IOTA but goes down to 13.6 volts. Or you can get the manually controlled version. But if going manual I would sooner have a Meanwell or similar adjustable power supply.


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BFL13

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Posted: 10/10/17 07:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Good! --yes do that! (except as follows) It will work.

Note that the Iota only stays at the higher voltage until the batts get to 14.6, which can be a short time if they are starting at say 60% SOC, then it drops to 14.2. for 8 hours. IMO 14.2 is a bit low, especially when the batts want 14.8 for their Absorption Stage like most deep cycles do now. 14.4 is too low even.

The Iota has no stage changing remote either, just a remote ( IQ4) that enables it to do the three stages instead of just one 13.6 stage.
With the PD you could keep hitting the boost button to keep it at the higher voltage for Absorption.

I much prefer the adjustable voltage PowerMax, but you could choose a Randy type (bestconverters.com) 14.8 PD (not adjustable), as second best choice for the same price [emoticon] (Ok I am a PM fan. Others here are PD fans. Shoot me! [emoticon] )

I would say the Iota is third choice for the reasons given.

red31

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Posted: 10/10/17 07:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

[image]
That's the difference between 14.4 and 13.6
Note the 20A 'smart' charge @ 14+v exceeds the 13.6v/35A wfco.

What does East penn suggest, 30% of C20 or 150*.3 = 45A
45A charge until battery V = 14.7v
hold 14.7 @ battery for hrs
float 13.8v
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-........able-Energy-Charging-Parameters-1913.pdf

there is always this from PD, fast means high current to 14+v, hold 14+v
[image]
14.4v boost, 13.6 'normal', 13.2 float

WFCO theroy of operation:
"If the converter observes no significant variations in current draw for approximately 44 continuous hours, it will drop the output of the converter from 13.6V to 13.2V."

Ask why 44 hrs before float.

* This post was edited 10/10/17 08:37pm by red31 *

ktmrfs

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Posted: 10/10/17 07:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

generally you will seldom see max current at max voltage, certainly not on initial connection on a reasonably large AH (100+) reasonably discharged battery. On a reasonably discharged battery the converter starts charging as a constant current device with a current limit, 40, 50 60 or more amps and the voltage at the battery will rise to whatever is needed to support that level of current. Often this initial voltage is in the 13V range. as the battery charges up most of the converters can't hold max current as the approach the max voltage and current drops as the voltage rises to near the constant voltage threshold and they go into a constant voltage mode, 14.x V which is what the battery wants to finish charge.

As an example, I have a bank of 4 T-125's. with them near 50 percent discharged I can hit them with my PD45A unit in the panel and my 60A unit in thge pass through. Initial current will often be in the 110A range, but the voltage will still be in the low 13V range initially. It takes another hour or so before voltage starts to rise much. I would guess current would exceed 200A to get initial voltage anywhere near 14V initially.

That said the OP is one of the very very few that I've know that was able to get the WFCO into the constant current mode. most I've seen almost immediately drop into the 13.6 constant voltage mode. PD, Iota etc. behave much better.

Iota seems to be one of the best that is able to hold the constant current mode to near the 14.X constant voltage mode.


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time2roll

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Posted: 10/10/17 08:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lawrosa wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

never saw a wfco with pendant

i had a wfco deck mount with 'boost button' on the face of the deck mount

it worked,

i overheated and fried the wfco, but it was my fault

i was on shore power, and plugged and electric heater into inverter feed outlet
inverter running 1200w heater, wfco trying to supply inverter and batteries


No.. I know I dont have the pendant.. The wfco is going into boost mode IMO..

Im getting 40 amps of so..

What im wondering is what amps are the guys with the pendants getting on thier PD brand converters..

I ask because I too may of drank the cool aid to upgrade my wfco converter when its totally un neccessry..

The wfco seems to work as designed and why waste $200 upgrading just so I can see 14.4 volts with my tester.. ( Do any on the pendant guys actually see 14.4 volts?)

Its my assumption the wfco holds amps longer and the PD's taper too quick... Seems the wfco will always win...
No you are not in boost.

You will see 14.4 volts in boost and the amps will remain high for much longer and charge the battery much faster. 14.4 is like a rocket compared to 13.6 volts.

With plenty of good solar you may not ever need boost.

Cydog15

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Posted: 10/10/17 08:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The same internet experts saying the same thing until it changes. I'd call Bestconverter and get the job done right. They have all of them to choose from.

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