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Topic: Mercedes Sprinter vs Ford E450 seeking opinions

Posted By: Ed_Gee on 12/10/17 04:38pm

We are considering buying a short class C. Motorhome after selling our Tiffin Allegro 35’ RV. In looking at the new class C units in the 24-25 foot range I am concerned with both price and on OCCC specs. It seems to me that with those two considerations the Ford E450 chassis wins out handily.

I don’t really care if we get a diesel or gasser although I understand the MB Sprinter has notably higher maintenance costs.

I have noticed a higher quality build on most of the Sprinter units we have looked at....Winnebago View, Isata 3,and Tiffin Wayfarer, but am thinking with all my RV maintenance experience I should be able to deal with lesser quality units like the Forest River Sunseeker on a Ford E450chassis. We tend to take very good preventative care of our RVs.

I am seeking opinions from others on this issue I raise. Read what I said and please feel free to express your opinions.


Ed - on the Central Oregon coast
2018 Winnebago Fuse 23A
Scion xA toad


Posted By: Ductape on 12/10/17 04:49pm

Gas for the Ford will more than pay for Sprinter maintenance.

Get whichever one you like.


49 States, 6 Provinces, 2 Territories...


Posted By: Lwiddis on 12/10/17 05:06pm

I agree with Ductape...get the one you like the best.


Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2020 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, 300 watt solar-parallel & MPPT, Trojan T-125s. TALL flag pole. Prefer boondocking, USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state camps. Bicyclist14 yr. Army vet-11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad



Posted By: Desert Captain on 12/10/17 05:11pm

Are you going to tow? If yes get the V-10 Ford {or the 6.0L Chevy}, it is just that simple. Yes, the Sprinter/MB "can" tow but they do not do it very well. I've passed many laboring up a 6 per cent grade with their flashers on. Look closely at the CCC or OCCC {whatever they are quoting these days}. The Sprinter chassis will not even come close to the payload of an E-350/450.

The Sprinters get better mileage, no question {think 15 - 17 and no, they do NOT get 20+} but it's not that much better given the seriously higher maintenance costs that come with a MB diesel not to mention the higher cost of diesel fuel in most locations. Expect around 9 - 10 {8- 9 towing} mpg with a V -10.

Any little town big enough to have a Dollar Store probably has a Ford dealer who can work on your V-10 - authorized MB dealers are spread pretty thin. If you doubt it go on line and check for authorized MB service centers.

Yep, I have an E-350 V-10 {full disclosre here}.

As always.... Opinions and YMMV.

[emoticon]






Posted By: SidecarFlip on 12/10/17 05:22pm

Here's my opinion from first hand observations..

I'd get the Ford over the MB because the MB is monocoque construction, that is, no frame. It's all welded sheet metal box construction so (pray tell) if you get in a wreck, the MB is almost impossible to repair. I know, I've seen a few cut apart and welded back together and no matter what you do, they are never right again.

Just my 2 cents.

Give me a frame over unibody (on a truck like vehicle) anyday.


2015 Backpack SS1500
1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB


Posted By: IAMICHABOD on 12/10/17 05:39pm

Why not put a Class C built on a Chevy Chassis in the mix?

The higher cost of the Sprinter and higher maintenance costs of them would be a consideration.

There are some nice RVs in the length range on Chevy Chassis like the Sunseeker just check out their floor plans,most come on Chevy and Ford Chassis.


2006 TIOGA 26Q CHEVY 6.0 WORKHORSE VORTEC
Former El Monte RV Rental

Buying A Rental Class C



Posted By: clayway on 12/10/17 05:40pm

Here is my take I went from the MB to a Chevy (I had a custom build & wanted the Chevy do to a relationship I have with Chevy) I like to travel in rural areas I had a break down in the MB & was towed nearly 100 miles for repairs, could not get a local shop to look at it, broke down in the Chevy in rural WV & the local shop that worked on commercial coal trucks did a repair for me.


Posted By: gemsworld on 12/10/17 05:43pm

You don't have to settle for "lesser quality units" if you go with a Ford chassis C class. Take a look at the small C class Winnebagos.






Posted By: mobilefleet on 12/10/17 05:50pm

I have a v10 and my dad has a mercedes sprinter, gas is easier to find and cheaper. His rv is a 2013 or 2014 so longevity has yet to prove itself. His does run quiet but any maintenance/repairs would exceed the ubiquitous Ford V10 which is cheap to maintain.


Posted By: pianotuna on 12/10/17 07:53pm

v-10 for me.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.


Posted By: loggenrock on 12/10/17 11:02pm

Sprinter guy here. 1st - the cab/chassis units that B+/C rigs are built on do, in fact, have a frame, not a unibody. Moved to the MB after 100k on a Chevy Express 3500. Sprinter climbs hills just as well as my big old V8 did. We also tow 3300# of toad with it. I have never tried to climb hills in either rig with engine screaming - not afraid to slow down on long climbs. Still pass semi's going uphill. Got 15 mpg in the Chevy. Get 15+ mpg in the Sprinter while towing. Liked my Chevy. Like my Sprinter. Used to change oil in Chevy about twice a year, maybe 3 times. About $50 a pop. Do annual oil change in Sprinter, since they say good for 20k. Cost $140. So break even there. didn't have any major issues with the Chevy, so far none with MB, so can't compare. Familiar with Ford Super-Duties - drive F450 almost every day. Have had more issues with that truck/suspension/transmission than either of my rigs. So wasn't interested in going down that road. All said, get what feels right for you! ST


Two and a hound in a 2015 Coachmen Prism "B+"...pushed by '09 Suby Forester
First 50 done, working on the second pass! Nunavut - we'll see...!
2005-2015 Roadtrek 190P
1993-2005 Northstar Soft-Side TC
1989-1993 Backpacks & Tents!
1967-1977 Family TT's




Posted By: midnightsadie on 12/11/17 05:02am

X@ my sprinter has been great and a quality built rv by leisure travel vans.its a 2007 have not needed a repair shop. and I to pass other rv,s going up grades. buy what fits your needs, OH,my log book shows lot of 20 mpg . IT,s the I5 cyc mb .


Posted By: Chainwright on 12/11/17 07:49am

JMHO. When I lived in Europe, fixing MB and BMW was cheaper than Here, and just about every mechanical shop could fix them and parts were readily available. In the U.S. it cost an arm and a leg to fix them and not everyone can fix them.
Moral of the story: If you do most of your RV'ing in the US, Drive American.


Posted By: ernie1 on 12/11/17 01:11pm

I just sold my 2005 PleasureWay Excel TD on a Ford E350 chassis. I had more than my share of suspension and chassis issues and the last big issue was a rear axle that had to be replaced because of a spun bearing. Of course while you're in there, you replace all the rest of the bearings. Total, about $2,000. I was at the mercy of the shop because it was a Ford truck shop. Seems most Ford dealers will not service an rv because they don't have a parking lot big enough to hold rvs and their lifts aren't strong enough. What was a bit infuriating was that I assumed the replacement parts were going to be at least Ford parts, they ended up being some off branded stuff. Should I mention I had to replace the u joints myself. Oh well, after 88,000 miles, I realized I didn't have to ever do a thing to the 6.8L v10 and it never burned more than maybe 8 ops of oil between changes.

As a result of selling the PW on a Ford chassis, I've purchased a 2018 PW on a Mercedes 3500 chassis and am keeping my fingers crossed. Yes I am concerned a bit about availability of service as I was about the Ford. I'm thinking of purchasing the factory repair manuals and doing what repairs are necessary that I can do myself and the rest will go to Mercedes.


Posted By: ctilsie242 on 12/11/17 02:09pm

All three are good.

The Sprinter van doesn't have a frame. However, the cutaway does have a ladder frame.

The Sprinters are Mercedes. They work well, but when they break, you pay Mercedes prices for parts and service, especially if you lose a key, or a particulate filter gets clogged. You may not have a Sprinter dealership nearby, because not all Freightliner or M-B places bother to service Sprinters.

I would go with the E-450 as my chassis of choice. Granted the V-10 is a gas guzzler compared to the thrifty OM642 V6. However, the Ford V-10 is tried and true, and I've read about those engines taking insane amounts of neglect and abuse and still running. If I need parts, OEM replacements are present, non OEM stuff abounds, and there are tons of junkyards with those engines. If I need a new engine, $5000 gets me one from a crate, and I can get rebuilt/remans for cheaper.


Posted By: ron.dittmer on 12/11/17 02:52pm

I did not read through the replies given by others. As for me, it's a diesel versus gas issue as much as it is Mercedes versus Ford issue. Here are my trade-offs.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35%-50% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions, you are low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford offers a great backup system. The V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

I suggest adding Phoenix Cruiser models 2350 and 2400 to your list of Sprinter/Ford candidates. Both models are offered on the Sprinter and the E350 for direct comparison. The E450 chassis is also available via special request. Use the pricing tool on their website to compare costs. There are a number of Phoenix Cruiser owners in your area. Maybe you could connect with one and get a walk-through. Phoenix USA does not sell through 3rd parties via RV lots. With two rare exceptions, they are sold factory direct. People all say it is best to fly out there and drive your new PC home. If you find PC exceptionally interesting, I advise to join the Phoenix forum and pick the brain of current owners.

If you decide to drop the Sprinter all together, that opens up a lot more choices.

My wife and I special ordered our 2007 Phoenix Cruiser 2350 on a 2007 E350 chassis brand new 10.5 years ago, specifically avoiding the extra cost for a slide out because we simply don't like slide outs. You can SEE IT HERE. It's been a great motor home. My only complaint is that we don't use it often enough. Work, house, and family life interfere much.

* This post was edited 12/11/17 03:17pm by ron.dittmer *


2007 Phoenix Cruiser model 2350, with 2006 Jeep Liberty in-tow



Posted By: Ed_Gee on 12/11/17 08:29pm

My heartfelt thanks to all who took the time to respond to my question. Every post was useful to us and a few were extremely useful. Much food for thought and some of your posts will cause us to re-evaluate the units we have been looking at.
Again, thanks to all....and I will continue to monitor this thread in case more good responses show up.


Posted By: Olddud on 12/12/17 09:28am

Didn't notice a mention of the turning radius of E450 vs. Sprinter. I've had both and the Sprinter turns sharp, unlike the E450 which takes a parking lot. For that reason alone I would never consider a E450 again. Just don't like the worry about which road to turn down and if it has a surprise for me, especially if towing. However, I don't need anything larger than what a Sprinter has to offer (2 people, one cat), but if I did need larger, Sprinter would get overloaded quick.

Can't speak for the E350 and it's radius.


Posted By: DrewE on 12/12/17 10:21am

Olddud wrote:

Didn't notice a mention of the turning radius of E450 vs. Sprinter. I've had both and the Sprinter turns sharp, unlike the E450 which takes a parking lot. For that reason alone I would never consider a E450 again. Just don't like the worry about which road to turn down and if it has a surprise for me, especially if towing. However, I don't need anything larger than what a Sprinter has to offer (2 people, one cat), but if I did need larger, Sprinter would get overloaded quick.

Can't speak for the E350 and it's radius.


I may be wrong, but I think the E350 and E450 have the same (rather dismal) wheel cut ratio.

It probably goes without saying, but the turning radius is also directly related to the wheelbase. A longer wheelbase will mean a worse turning radius, other things being equal. And yes, my 32' overall E-SuperDuty class C has a rather dismal turning radius, which means that maneuvering in tight parking lots can be a bit of a challenge.

Somewhat related, this classic by the Willis Brothers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDxVJ471hyg






Posted By: HawkTX on 12/12/17 10:30am

I can't get you a long-term view, but I've had my Winnebago VIEW for almost a year now and have put 15,000 miles on it in that period of time going from Dallas to the Florida Keys, Grand Canyon, Colorado, Smoky Mountain National Park, Charleston NC, and New Orleans and it has been flawless. I really like the Mercedes Sprinter Chassis so far. My advice is if you go that route be sure to keep up with all your maintenance items and she should last you a long time. A few people on the Winnebago Sprinter forum have over 500,000 miles on theirs and say they are still kicking.


Posted By: Ed_Gee on 12/12/17 10:46am

Regarding the comments on the E350 / E450 turning radius, I wonder what year you guys are referring to. I had a 2013 Class A with the Ford V10 on the F53 chassis and the turning radius for that 35 foot rig was astounding. It had a 52 degree wheel cut. I am wondering if later model E450 and E350 has this improved cut?


Posted By: Desert Captain on 12/12/17 12:05pm

From the Ford website:

Turning diameter is the same for the E-350 and 450

With the 158" Wheelbase = 54.8'

With the 176" Wheelbase = 60.3'

[emoticon]


Posted By: DrewE on 12/12/17 12:23pm

Ed_Gee wrote:

Regarding the comments on the E350 / E450 turning radius, I wonder what year you guys are referring to. I had a 2013 Class A with the Ford V10 on the F53 chassis and the turning radius for that 35 foot rig was astounding. It had a 52 degree wheel cut. I am wondering if later model E450 and E350 has this improved cut?


The F53 is a different chassis than the E series chassis, of course, and this is one area where they differ a good bit. I believe the E series has a wheel cut of somewhere in the vicinity of only 25 degrees or so, at least at one point, though it may have been improved a little since then. Ford doesn't put that information on their web site (at least not in a place I can find).


Posted By: pnichols on 12/12/17 12:38pm

Of course Ford's original "design intent" for the E350/E450 series was for vans - with their wheelbases way less than that on motorhomes. With these short van wheelbases, turning radius is adequate.

For the case of our 24 foot Class C with it's short-for-motorhomes 158 inch wheelbase (which is still much longer than that on a stock van) on an E450 chassis, we can almost do a single point U-turn on most residential streets if there are no cars parked along the curbs where we turn around.

I suspect that the design intent of the Mercedes chassis was the same. But since the Mercedes chassis can't handle large/long Class B+/Class C motorhomes anyway, whatever turning radius the Mercedes has will seem adequate for the short motorhomes able to be built on it.


Phil, 2005 E450 Itasca Spirit 24V


Posted By: IAMICHABOD on 12/12/17 01:20pm

Desert Captain wrote:

From the Ford website:

Turning diameter is the same for the E-350 and 450

With the 158" Wheelbase = 54.8'

With the 176" Wheelbase = 60.3'

[emoticon]


Thanks for that,I thought that My Chevy Based Class C did turn a bit better than the ones that I tested on a Ford Chassis.

Chevy Cutaway
With the 159" wheelbase = 49.2'

With the 177 Wheelbase = 55.7'


Posted By: DrewE on 12/12/17 01:46pm

Desert Captain wrote:

From the Ford website:

Turning diameter is the same for the E-350 and 450

With the 158" Wheelbase = 54.8'

With the 176" Wheelbase = 60.3'

[emoticon]


Doing a bit of math (trig), that works out to about a 28 degree wheel cut angle for these chassis, assuming I figured things correctly. Many class C's used stretched chassis, of course, and the turning diameter would proportionally increase with the increase in wheelbase.


Posted By: Olddud on 12/12/17 02:44pm

DrewE wrote:

--- and the turning diameter would proportionally increase with the increase in wheelbase.


I should have qualified my comment by saying my E450 was on a long wheelbase (Cambria 32+ foot long), so it's radius was BIG, in my opinion.

The first time I test drove a Sprinter (Winnebago View), the salesman told me to turn around on a fairly wide residential street with a cutout for parking on one side, and I said "no way". I did try it and was sold on the Sprinter from that point. With the Cambria, there way no way.


Posted By: pnichols on 12/12/17 06:52pm

Olddud wrote:

The first time I test drove a Sprinter (Winnebago View), the salesman told me to turn around on a fairly wide residential street with a cutout for parking on one side, and I said "no way". I did try it and was sold on the Sprinter from that point. With the Cambria, there way no way.


But .... what was the wheelbase of the View and Cambria?

Of course one must compare wheelbase apples to wheelbase apples. [emoticon]


Posted By: CharlesinGA on 12/12/17 08:17pm

2006 and earlier chassis Sprinters/WBO View/Navion have a 158 inch wheelbase and <24 length.

2007 and up chassis View/Navion have 170 inch wheelbase and <25 ft length.

Some of the 2006 and earlier vans had shorter wheelbases, 118 inch and 144 inch.

Charles


'03 Ram 2500 CTD, 5.9HO six speed std cab long bed Leer top and 2008 Bigfoot 25B21RB.. previously 2008 Thor/Dutchman Freedom Spirit 180. SOLD - 2007 Winnebago View 23H Motorhome.


Posted By: j-d on 12/12/17 09:44pm

Ford E-Series doesn't have much steering "cut", something like 25-degrees. Plenty with a short wheelbase, but our 218" stretched WB needs a LOT of turning room.


If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB


Posted By: oldsarge on 12/13/17 02:57pm

Let me jump in here. I too am debating over the View 24J vs a small Class C about 28 feet long, Jayco type to be exact. I just drove the 2018 View 24J, full body paint and loaded. I mean loaded. MSRP price was 154K, They gave me price of 119k. No trade . I am wandering if I can go lower. The Other class C is around 75K out the door and rides very nice. Of course a nice 450 ford well built J ride Jayco. I like them both but those MB's are just so high priced. I really didn't feel to much difference in ride and getting around with either. About the same. Just can't decide. Payments are higher though and from what I read is it really worth it to have the MB.


Cruise and move


Posted By: ernie1 on 12/13/17 04:59pm

Ed I very strongly suggest you go find a Ford based class C and you and your wife sit in the front seats to get a feel of the amount of legroom available. Just sold our 2005 Ford E350 and I have to say that the available legroom is very minimal for the driver and barely tolerable for the passenger. I'm only 5'9" and my wife is 5'. Give this some serious thought. The Sprinter that we will be receiving has very comfortable seating and ample legroom.


Posted By: pianotuna on 12/13/17 06:50pm

The Sprinter Diesel is not going to be sold in North America any longer.


Posted By: Desert Captain on 12/13/17 07:54pm

ernie1 wrote:

Ed I very strongly suggest you go find a Ford based class C and you and your wife sit in the front seats to get a feel of the amount of legroom available. Just sold our 2005 Ford E350 and I have to say that the available legroom is very minimal for the driver and barely tolerable for the passenger. I'm only 5'9" and my wife is 5'. Give this some serious thought. The Sprinter that we will be receiving has very comfortable seating and ample legroom.


I've had my 2012 E-350 for 4+ years and at 5' 9", 185# have zero comfort issues. If you are over 6' tall or the first number when you get on the scale is larger than one then you "may" have issues with legroom in a Ford chassis. Having a drivers side slide has more impact on legroom as they prevent you from backing/reclining the drivers seat all the way.

If not there is nothing to be gained in terms of comfort with a Sprinter. Frankly they have the most uncomfortable seats I have ever encountered {stiff and vertical} - no contest vs the power drivers seat I have in my Ford which is almost infinitely adjustable..

As always.... Opinions and YMMV.


Posted By: pnichols on 12/13/17 08:35pm

FWIW I'm 6'2" and shrinking, but legroom in my E450 is just fine. However this comes with a caveat ... the dinette seatback is right behind the back of the driver's seat, but this dinette seatback folds down towards the dinette tabletop when not needed. This permits me to slant the back of the E450's driver's seat nicely, which provides the legroom comfort I need when driving.


Posted By: RobertRyan on 12/13/17 08:40pm

pianotuna wrote:

The Sprinter Diesel is not going to be sold in North America any longer.

No that is incorrect


Posted By: Ed_Gee on 12/13/17 09:05pm

ernie1 wrote:

Ed I very strongly suggest you go find a Ford based class C and you and your wife sit in the front seats to get a feel of the amount of legroom available. Just sold our 2005 Ford E350 and I have to say that the available legroom is very minimal for the driver and barely tolerable for the passenger. I'm only 5'9" and my wife is 5'. Give this some serious thought. The Sprinter that we will be receiving has very comfortable seating and ample legroom.


Hmmmm. The E350 you say had little leg room was 13 years old. I cannot help but wonder if Ford has improved the space since then. I have sat my 6’ frame in a new E450 and don’t recall there being a legroom problem.....


Posted By: pianotuna on 12/13/17 09:36pm

From the following website:

"Mercedes-Benz, however, which pioneered the use of Rudolf Diesel's compression-ignition engine in passenger cars 81 years ago, sells no diesel vehicles in the U.S. this year" (sic 2018).

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/111........hicles-offered-in-u-s-guess-who-has-most


RobertRyan wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

The Sprinter Diesel is not going to be sold in North America any longer.

No that is incorrect



Posted By: IAMICHABOD on 12/13/17 09:59pm

ernie1 wrote:

Ed I very strongly suggest you go find a Ford based class C and you and your wife sit in the front seats to get a feel of the amount of legroom available. Just sold our 2005 Ford E350 and I have to say that the available legroom is very minimal for the driver and barely tolerable for the passenger. I'm only 5'9" and my wife is 5'. Give this some serious thought. The Sprinter that we will be receiving has very comfortable seating and ample legroom.


As mentioned before you may look for a RV that is built on a Chevy Chassis they offer more room in the cockpit,provide a better ride than the ones on a Ford Chassis and are not plagued with the handling problems that some have.

Some Brands to look into are Thor Chateau or Coachman Concord just click on floor plans, they both offer them on a Chevy Chassis.

Length The Chevy is 9 inches longer.

But the real story is the interior.

The area from the Dog House to the kick panel,the floor board where your feet are.

The Chevy is 18 inches wide and mostly flat.

The Ford is 15 inches wide but has a 2 inch rise that is 5 inches wide leaving only 10 inches of flat floor.

With the seat pushed back as far as it goes on both the Ford And Chevy. Both having Stock Factory seats
I found.
Foot well depth to front of seat. Chevy 31 inches Ford 27 inches

Seat back to steering wheel. Chevy 26 inches Ford 23 inches

Front of seat to Dash. Chevy 29 inches Ford 23 inches 6" More leg room!

Dog House width,measured at dash Chevy 15 inches Ford 23 inches 4 inches less knee room for passenger and driver.

Dog House depth into cab from dash Chevy 8 inches Ford 11 inches

For long time driving comfort the Chevy has a better cockpit,smoother ride and is quieter.


Posted By: ronfisherman on 12/14/17 03:06am

Those traveling in remote area's should read this thread.
Vacation trip is ending up terrible

* This post was edited 12/14/17 03:27am by ronfisherman *


2004 Gulf Stream Endura 6340 D/A SOLD
2012 Chevy Captiva Toad SOLD



Posted By: whizbang on 12/14/17 08:09am

We test drove some MB models before buying a E350 class C.

The Sprinter chassis is several inches narrower. So, we found it easier to drive and maneuver in tight quarters. Conversely, the wider E350's had roomier living spaces.

Our Winnie has the 158" weight base and seems to turn on a dime. This is actually a problem. My DW doesn't understand the geometry and turns too sharp while pulling into traffic from curbside parking. The result is for the rear end to smack light posts, trash cans, trees, whatever.

Our next RV needs to have a longer wheel base with less rear overhang. If I recall, I think the MB Sprinter chassis met this criteria...


Whizbang
2002 Winnebago Minnie
http://www.raincityhome.com/RAWH/index.htm



Posted By: ron.dittmer on 12/14/17 01:30pm

We (both turning 60 next year) have an E350 with a 6-way power driver seat that the RV manufacture supplied. The seat can be adjusted all the way back without interference to the dinette behind it. I am 5'-11" and 190 pounds. I have one complaint regarding driver comfort. That is the position of the gas and brake pedal relative to the driver seat.

When I have been away from the motor home for months at a time, every time I first get in the driver seat and hit the brake pedal to put the vehicle into gear, I mistakenly press the pas pedal. The two pedals are skewed to the left because the engine compartment is so wide. Studying my relative position as I am used to with all my other vehicles, the gas pedal is where the brake pedal should be, and the brake pedal is where a clutch pedal would be if I had one. My seat is in the correct position relative to the steering wheel so the seat is mounted properly. After a day or two of discomfort from it, I adjust to the skewed pedals and all is okay for the balance of the trip.

When my wife drives, I sit in the passenger position and am comfortable with the limited leg room. In that seat, we both sometimes rest our right stocking foot on the dash to the right of the air bag, and other times place our left leg between seats.

I think we would all agree that E350/E450 leg room is tight, but neither my wife and find it to be an issue. It really is no matter at all for us, driver or passenger positions. Either discomfort is blown out of proportion, or the people with exceptional discomfort have issues with arthritis and leg/hip joints.


Posted By: grimmrlg on 12/14/17 01:36pm

I went from a Ford E450 28' class B+ with one side slide to a Mercedes Sprinter 25' B+ with rear and side slide. The interior layout and length was nearly identical with rear slide extended. The biggest reason for us to change was easier to maneuver in tight state and county park campgrounds, gas stations, and parking lots; quieter ride, less intimidating for wife to drive, driver comfort, fuel economy, and long term resale value. I have never had issues finding diesel fuel and for me an oil change requires 6 quarts more oil, a minor cost adder. Fuel economy towing the same car with both, Ford 8mpg, Sprinter 16mpg.


Posted By: cbigham on 12/15/17 06:11pm

I just bought a Thor 23u on the e450 chassis, we wanted the heavier has sis for tow, carry a motorcycle on the hitch rack, and wanted less e350 torsion bar, sway issues. Drives nice enough, had a e350 based 1998 starflyte. Good as well. I often wonder how a winnebago view would deal with severe side winds ..such a narrow stance axel width for its height.

Personally not interested in diesel technology I have no hope of being able to fix, especially In the field. I've seen a lot go wrong with rv's mine and others over the years. V10 I can fix most stuff. Old cummins, Detroit diesel suff, cat, yes.new computerized diesel? No.

Fwiw I checked out expeditors websites to see the types of van chassis holding up over 2,3,400k mikes. Ford v10, some chevies. People like the sprinter but had lots of issues around 2,230k. Nothing money won't solve but not fixable everywhere. Expeditors are small haul cargo carriers carrying sensitive, expensive or otherwise was shipped in van.


Posted By: oldsarge on 12/16/17 06:59pm

cbigham: How did the 23U drive, Its small, We drove the Winnebago minnie 25B at 26 feet and the back end of it bumped around and was very choppy for guest in the rear or center sofa/dinette. Just wandering if the 23u had better ride.


Posted By: ctilsie242 on 12/18/17 09:14am

One interesting pro for the Ford chassis models. Ten years from now, you will be able to find parts for the E-350/E-450 chassis, including crate engines.

Because Mercedes is killing the diesel Sprinter, it may be dicey finding things like particulate filters and such, ten years from now. It might be that parts would only be available from a "boutique" custom CNC machining place, similar to how people obtain parts for long-discontinued VW stuff.

I personally am concerned about parts availability with Sprinters, especially with this recent announcement, so I would look at another chassis if buying within the next couple years, until this mess is sorted out. On the other hand, I have zero worries with Fords if I need to find something.


Posted By: Olddud on 12/18/17 12:01pm

ctilsie242 wrote:

Because Mercedes is killing the diesel Sprinter,


According to everything I have read, they are not killing the diesel sprinter, and the sky is not falling.


Posted By: CharlesinGA on 12/18/17 07:59pm

All that happened is that Mercedes did not submit the emmision documentation to the NHTSA nor to Transport Canada for next years Diesel AUTOMOBILES, meaning they do not intend to sell DIESEL AUTOMOBILES in the US or Canada.

The articles make no mention of Mercedes/Freightliner diesel trucks being discontinued.

Much ado about nothing and a whole bunch of chicken little.

Charles


Posted By: yr2017 on 04/28/18 05:21pm

CharlesinGA wrote:

All that happened is that Mercedes did not submit the emmision documentation to the NHTSA nor to Transport Canada for next years Diesel AUTOMOBILES, meaning they do not intend to sell DIESEL AUTOMOBILES in the US or Canada.Charles


Charles: That's good news. But, it comes too late for a lot of people stuck with defective (still under warranty) units. The other unfortunate part is they will be selling those units south of the border to unsuspecting people down there with absolutely NO support. I had one - it's still sitting at the dealership in Panama.


Big AL
DOD - 02 APR 2020 - CANCER


Posted By: RobertRyan on 04/28/18 06:06pm

pianotuna wrote:

From the following website:

"Mercedes-Benz, however, which pioneered the use of Rudolf Diesel's compression-ignition engine in passenger cars 81 years ago, sells no diesel vehicles in the U.S. this year" (sic 2018).

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/111........hicles-offered-in-u-s-guess-who-has-most


RobertRyan wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

The Sprinter Diesel is not going to be sold in North America any longer.



No OTHER Diesels that is cars and SUV’s but Sprinter Diesel will be. There is an option of a Gas engine on the soon to be built US versions


Posted By: RobertRyan on 04/28/18 06:12pm

Olddud wrote:

ctilsie242 wrote:

Because Mercedes is killing the diesel Sprinter,


According to everything I have read, they are not killing the diesel sprinter, and the sky is not falling.

Adding a Gas version of the Sprinter for NA. Will not exist outside NA


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