RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: Your opinion of Battery Desulfators

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Your opinion of Battery Desulfators

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Next
Sponsored By:
GaryS1953

Michigan

Full Member

Joined: 05/26/2009

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 11:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hi All - A while back, only a couple of months after I installed my 2 GC2 245 AMP hour batteries and solar panels, I had an accidental removal of the breakaway pin which caused our 5th wheel brakes to lockup while parked and drew the batteries down to 8 volts before I noticed it. I managed to bring the batteries back, and they seem ok, charging appropriately when the sun is out to over 14 volts, then floating around 13.25 till the sun goes down. But I've been worried about how much I might have shortened the life of the the batteries by letting this happen. You people here are awesome, with an incredible amount of knowledge and experience to share, so I wondered what your opinion is of these inexpensive battery minder/desulfators is. They seem to get good reviews and people say they've extended the lives of their batteries. This is the unit I was Thinking of.


Gary in Michigan
2014 Chevy Silverado 1500 Double Cab 5.3 Liter V8
1996 Coachmen Catalina 25' Fifth Wheel
495 Watts Solar, 40 AMP Renogy Tracer MPPT Controller, 2 GC2 Batts.

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

Senior Member

Joined: 06/01/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 12:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

To think these gizmos work is like believing children can be sent to school where a teacher can impart values, honesty, social graces, as well as an education. The education system is a babysitter -- put the little monster on the bus...

Not Going To Happen...

I guess for the hundredth time I shall repeat this: The lead acid battery is a chemical laboratory in which electricity is a curious by-product.

Guesswork -- the responsibility of proper battery management is totally up to the individual. There is no "automatic device" in battery management. There are helpful aids. One has to remember the (then) not inexpensive VX-66 miracle engine renewal kits sold in magazine ads...

"Simply drop the pellets into the gas tank and pour the liquid into the crankcase and while you drive the cylinder walls and bearings will be plated with a smooth sealing renewal that will dramatically improve power and performance"

The public bought into this by the hundreds of thousands. They believed in the process whole heartedly. If challenged they would become defensive, often aggressive, ridiculing the idea that their miracle was not real.

A person cannot see, hear, or smell electricity. It takes instrumentation. For many people that first step alone is too much to bear -- for lack of education, interest, or even showing disdain, they will revert to opinion, derived conclusions, and seek fellow travelers in the process. With a storage battery, such warping of reality is easy to do -- no two environments are the same, like the blind men describing the elephant, they tout their opinions with enthusiasm.

There is only one single solitary way to properly manage a flooded lead acid battery -- when in doubt examine battery chemistry. Determine what's actually going on inside the cell. By measuring battery acid density -- with an instrument.

Measuring acid density will provide an anchor point. Like the necessity of re-zero'ing an amp hour meter, battery gravity will zero out guesswork and will establish "way-points" to ease the learning of battery characteristics.

Once a battery has had a chance to make equal the density of acid in all cells, then instrumentation can be used to manage the battery until another "zero-reset" becomes necessary.

By PICKING ON the habitual weak sister, the cell that sulfates first, a hydrometer needs to be used only once. If that cell is up and running properly the remaining cells will also be operating OK. And again (how can I make this even clearer?) the dipping of the weak sister cell only needs to be done when doubt exists about battery performance.

Like recovery from a discharge that has taken the battery to "8 volts"

The only sane and sure way to correct a sulfated battery cell is to follow the regimen that has been used for the last 100+ years. Physics has not changed -- attitudes have.

Find out the capacity of six cells. It can be one or two batteries (working with three cells is more difficult due to lack of a means to charge the three cells)

The formula is simple. Achieving the formula is less simple but it is easier than it appears on the surface...

A constant current, current meaning amperage of close to 5% of the rating of total amp hours (the 20 amp hour rate) is impressed on the battery following a regular charge to get the battery as full as possible.

Constant current means exactly that.

Let's use a badly sulfated 100 amp hour battery as an example.

5% of 100 is of course 5.0 So five amperes is the magic number.

Vary from this formula is then the results will be like guessing at how to bake a cake...

350 degrees for 25 minutes does not mean

1,750 degrees for 5 minutes

nor

Five hours at 70 degrees.

A battery charging device is needed that can attain 16.0 volts. Sixteen volts at however many amps is called for in the 5% formula.

And amperage must remain constant. No starting at 40 amps dwindling to 2 amps at 14.9 volts.

This means a GENUINE battery charger must be used.

Like with many chemical processes, some cheating is permitted.

A Megawatt or Meanwell power supply can be used. To throttle current to a reasonable "near five amps" a 12 volt light bulb can be connected inline with the battery charger's positive charge wire. This is a connection done in "series". Positive wire in, positive wire out.

With the Megawatt it cannot reach 16.0 volts, so the adjustment "knob" must be turned up to maximum -- around 15.6 volts. It's cheating but the reality cops will permit a little deviance. With a 15 series Meanwell the adjustment pot has to be set with a meter to 16.0 volts. The 15 series can exceed 16 volts and a tiny bit higher than 16 is OK but is limited to one or two tenths of a volt.

Charge the battery as full as it can get with your converter, then disconnect the battery ground cable.

Pop the cell caps off and note all cells should not have the plates exposed to air.

Connect the Meanwell or Megawatt using the 12-volt lamp in series with the positive charging cable.

A FIFTY WATT 12-volt light bulb is close enough for 6 cell RV batteries.

A HUNDRED WATT 12-volt bulb is close enough for a pair of golf car batteries connected in series to make a 6-cell 12 volt circuit.

Power up the Mega-Meanwell. Note the electrolyte in all cells. You will be monitoring the presence of bubbling.

If it takes one hour or ten, one of two things must happen...

1. Rechecking the weak cell with the hydrometer indicates it is fully charged.

2. 16.0 volts is reached.

Either way the charging is to be stopped.

Allow the batteries to cool down to room temperature. The electrolyte will CONTINUE to equalize for almost an hour while the batteries are cooling down.

Then hydrometer check all cells. Those that have not reverted to original density are going to be a persistent problem -- live with it or buy new batteries.

This is the age old BATTERY COUNCIL INTERNATIONAL equalization formula and it was used on hundred ton battery banks on submarines in World War II. Physics does not change. Nor does chemistry.

HOW TO RADICALLY DELAY THE ONSET OF SULFATION

Once per 20 cycles of 50% discharge OR 3 months of maintenance by a smart charger or converter...

TOP CHARGE THE BATTERY

Set the Meanwell or Megawatt to 15.0 volts and allow it to charge for a half hour with a single 6-cell battery, or one hour with golf car batteries. No current throttling light bulb need be employed for Top Charging.

If you follow the top charging regimen it will eliminate the need for about 95% of the full, elaborate equalization charges needed.

AND MIND YOU

Power Post Princess, lightly used batteries may NEVER need to be equalized. But their lifespan will be shorter than it could be.

Trying to compare experiences gathered between a heavy battery user (boondocker) and a weekend warrior or a few weeks per year camper, both having permanent power after their trip is like...

Hearing someone belittle and argue with a chef "when a package of Twinkies is so easy to tear open" is all too common and it is frustrating. The remnants of "slip the tablets into the tank and pour the syrup into the crankcase" mentality.

GaryS1953

Michigan

Full Member

Joined: 05/26/2009

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 01:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"To think these gizmos work is like believing children can be sent to school where a teacher can impart values, honesty, social graces, as well as an education. The education system is a babysitter -- put the little monster on the bus...

Not Going To Happen..."

Sorry to bring up such a tired subject. I kind of felt it was too good to be true, and thought I would have seen them mentioned here on the fourm if people were using them, but I didn't think it would hurt (at least not too much) to ask. Thanks for setting me straight. I have seen people talk about the procedure you mention, and I'm interested in doing that, but I'm confused by the Meanwell power supplies. When I Google them they look sort of like internal PC power supplies. Is there a particular model you could/would recommend so that I I could check it out? Thanks VERY much.

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

Senior Member

Joined: 06/01/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 02:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

And thank you, sir, for being patient. This is one long long subject.

Yes these things are power supplies. They have no power switch, indeed, no power cord.

Here's one on AMAZON, cord with switch...


BesMelody
BesMelody 2-Pack Power Cord with on / off Button Switch, 6 Feet
4.2 out of 5 stars 7 customer reviews
Price: $7.99

https://www.jameco.com/z/RSP-320-13-5-ME........Function-13-5V-23-8A-321-3W_2204672.html

I recommend using 10 AWG red and black wires from the power supply to the battery.

This is what the bulbs look like

[image]

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/54321/SATCO-S5013.html

Your local NAPA auto parts store can get either the 50 or the 100 watt light bulbs as well.

[image]

I like plastic bases. Lighter and more impact resistant.

GaryS1953

Michigan

Full Member

Joined: 05/26/2009

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 03:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Here's one on AMAZON, cord with switch..."

Thanks again for the great info, but I'm not seeing the link to Amazon, just the link to Jameco.com.

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

Senior Member

Joined: 06/01/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 03:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

TWEAKING VOLTAGE to your liking.

A rough voltage setting can be easily done before connecting the power supply to the battery.

A digital voltmeter and a tiny straight blade screwdriver can be used. How tiny of screwdriver...one with a blade width about the width of the wooden end of a kitchen match.

BE CAREFUL AROUND EXPOSED HIGH VOLTAGE SCREW TERMINALS you attached the cord and rocker switch to. Seal up the three terminals with silicone sealant and let it cure before handling a plugged-in power supply.

BE SURE to throw the slide switch hidden on the side to 115V

Plug it in.

Read volts on the meter

The orange cap block to the left side of the terminal strip is the adjustment. It is incredibly touchy. Voltage jumps quickly so don't be surprised when it does.

Clockwise to increase voltage.

The Negative wire from DC - terminal strip runs directly to the battery negative post.

The Positive wire from DC + runs to the 12 volt light bulb base which has two terminals underneath. Doesn't matter which is which. Hook the wire from the converter to one screw. Then from the other screw run the wire to the battery + positive terminal.

The light bulb filament has resistance. Filaments are not perfect current regulators - but, they are definitely good enough. At 16 volts the 50 watt bulb will permit a shade less than 5 amps current, and the 100 watt will permit close to 10-amps (close enough).

PopBeavers

Coarsegold, CA

Senior Member

Joined: 03/19/2005

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 03:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

On my first trailer I was going to replace a pair of Interstate RV/Maring group 24 batteries, but instead I bough a charger and ran a desulfate and an equalize charge and the batteries were still fine 2 years later when I sold the TT.

My personal experience indicates that they do work.


Wayne in Coarsegold near Yosemite
2016 Keystone Cougar 303RLS
2015 Ford F350 diesel 6.7L 4x4 crew cab short bed
Super Glide hitch

GaryS1953

Michigan

Full Member

Joined: 05/26/2009

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 04:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"And thank you, sir, for being patient. This is one long long subject.

Yes these things are power supplies. They have no power switch, indeed, no power cord.

Here's one on AMAZON, cord with switch...


BesMelody
BesMelody 2-Pack Power Cord with on / off Button Switch, 6 Feet
4.2 out of 5 stars 7 customer reviews
Price: $7.99

https://www.jameco.com/z/RSP-320-13-5-ME........Function-13-5V-23-8A-321-3W_2204672.html

I recommend using 10 AWG red and black wires from the power supply to the battery."

MEXICOWANDERER: I ordered both. Looking forward to playing with a new toy, and getting those batteries in good. Thanks again.

GaryS1953

Michigan

Full Member

Joined: 05/26/2009

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 04:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

PopBeavers wrote:

On my first trailer I was going to replace a pair of Interstate RV/Maring group 24 batteries, but instead I bough a charger and ran a desulfate and an equalize charge and the batteries were still fine 2 years later when I sold the TT.

My personal experience indicates that they do work.


Thanks for you thoughts. I went ahead and ordered the Mean Well power supply as it seems to get lots of Kudos online.

profdant139

Southern California

Senior Member

Joined: 11/14/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 12/20/17 06:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gary, Mex has a million times more experience than I do with respect to electricity. But I know something about product litigation and class actions. As far as I can tell, the folks who produce the BatteryMinder, a pulse desulphator, have had no -- zero -- litigation against them alleging that the product does not work and is a fraud.

I have faith in my fellow attorneys. They are sharks and will lash out if they smell blood. No one has so much as nibbled at the BatteryMinder folks. Maybe that is because the lawyers don't understand electricity and don't know it's a fraud. Or maybe there is no fraud.


2012 Fun Finder X-139 "Boondock Style" (axle-flipped and extra insulation)
2013 Toyota Tacoma Off-Road (semi-beefy tires and components)
Our trips -- pix and text
About our trailer
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single list."


Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Your opinion of Battery Desulfators
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:

© 2018 CWI, Inc. © 2018 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved. | Terms of Use | PRIVACY POLICY | YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS