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Open Roads Forum  >  Travel Trailers  >  General Q&A

 > City water filling fresh tank

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Farmboy666

Pisgah Forest, NC

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Joined: 07/01/2017

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Posted: 02/19/18 10:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

beemerphile1 wrote:

Farmboy666 wrote:

ScottG wrote:

It can only get in the tank through the pump. There is no other avenue from the city water connection to the fresh water tank.

You could:
Replace the pump
Take pump apart and rinse all parts off. This may fix it.
Install another check valve
Install a manual valve

Not true, my tank is filled from city water connection and has nothing to do with the pump, I have to open the tank valve to fill tank or close it to use city pressure.


Your pump has a check valve, if that check valve fails the tank can fill by flowing backwards thru the pump.

My tank has a ball valve on it and can not fill unless that valve is open. The check valve in the pump has nothing to do with it. If I'm on city water the tank valve is closed and completely isolated from water system so pump check valve or not it can not fill.

wnjj

Cornelius, Oregon

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Posted: 02/19/18 10:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Farmboy666 wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:

Your pump has a check valve, if that check valve fails the tank can fill by flowing backwards thru the pump.

My tank has a ball valve on it and can not fill unless that valve is open. The check valve in the pump has nothing to do with it. If I'm on city water the tank valve is closed and completely isolated from water system so pump check valve or not it can not fill.


Do you have 2 valves? A valve that selects between city water inlet and tank fill won’t avoid the pump check valve issue. Now if you also have a valve that isolates the pump outlet from the pressurized water system then the check valve wouldn’t matter. I’m not sure why a manufacturer would install such a valve, however since a good pump won’t allow back flow.

In short, there are 2 ways to get water to your tank:
1. The fill port (whether via valve or gravity-fed tube.
2. Backwards through the pump.

Both would need valved off to prevent filling the tank in the event of a failed check valve.

Maybe I’m not following you. Where is the ball valve connected to? Is it a 2-way or just a shut off? Does your tank have 2 hoses connected to it or only 1?

Farmboy666

Pisgah Forest, NC

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Joined: 07/01/2017

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Posted: 02/19/18 11:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wnjj wrote:

Farmboy666 wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:

Your pump has a check valve, if that check valve fails the tank can fill by flowing backwards thru the pump.

My tank has a ball valve on it and can not fill unless that valve is open. The check valve in the pump has nothing to do with it. If I'm on city water the tank valve is closed and completely isolated from water system so pump check valve or not it can not fill.


Do you have 2 valves? A valve that selects between city water inlet and tank fill won’t avoid the pump check valve issue. Now if you also have a valve that isolates the pump outlet from the pressurized water system then the check valve wouldn’t matter. I’m not sure why a manufacturer would install such a valve, however since a good pump won’t allow back flow.


In short, there are 2 ways to get water to your tank:
1. The fill port (whether via valve or gravity-fed tube.
2. Backwards through the pump.

Both would need valved off to prevent filling the tank in the event of a failed check valve.

Maybe I’m not following you. Where is the ball valve connected to? Is it a 2-way or just a shut off? Does your tank have 2 hoses connected to it or only 1?

I don't have a gravity fill, I have a city water connection, If I want to fill my tank I open the valve on the line going into my tank. When the tank is full I shut the city water off and turn the pump on. If I want to use city water the valve to tank is closed so if check valve in pump were to fail the water still can't get into the tank because the Valve is closed.

wnjj

Cornelius, Oregon

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Posted: 02/19/18 11:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Farmboy666 wrote:

I don't have a gravity fill, I have a city water connection, If I want to fill my tank I open the valve on the line going into my tank. When the tank is full I shut the city water off and turn the pump on. If I want to use city water the valve to tank is closed so if check valve in pump were to fail the water still can't get into the tank because the Valve is closed.

I understand what you do to use it but I think you’re making assumptions about how it’s plumbed. Since you didn’t really answer where the valve physically is, I’ll explain with a generic response. Even with a direct fill valve from the city water to the tank, you probably still have another path back through the pump. The fill port to the tank is completely separate from where the pump draws its water from the tank so shutting that valve doesn’t do anything to help a broken pump check valve. Tank fill valves are simply a shunt to over to what would have been a gravity fill.

Search Google images for “rv water system diagram” and look at the 2nd picture. It shows a 2-way valve at the city inlet. There’s still a pressurized path that can fail back through the pump.

Maybe there’s some other way your rig is plumbed but I can’t imagine it without more valves involved than necessary.

beemerphile1

Ohio

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Posted: 02/19/18 05:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Farmboy666 wrote:

beemerphile1 wrote:

Farmboy666 wrote:

ScottG wrote:

It can only get in the tank through the pump. There is no other avenue from the city water connection to the fresh water tank.

You could:
Replace the pump
Take pump apart and rinse all parts off. This may fix it.
Install another check valve
Install a manual valve

Not true, my tank is filled from city water connection and has nothing to do with the pump, I have to open the tank valve to fill tank or close it to use city pressure.


Your pump has a check valve, if that check valve fails the tank can fill by flowing backwards thru the pump.

My tank has a ball valve on it and can not fill unless that valve is open. The check valve in the pump has nothing to do with it. If I'm on city water the tank valve is closed and completely isolated from water system so pump check valve or not it can not fill.


Then your system is unique and not like every other RV built.


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Farmboy666

Pisgah Forest, NC

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Posted: 02/19/18 08:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wnjj wrote:

Farmboy666 wrote:

I don't have a gravity fill, I have a city water connection, If I want to fill my tank I open the valve on the line going into my tank. When the tank is full I shut the city water off and turn the pump on. If I want to use city water the valve to tank is closed so if check valve in pump were to fail the water still can't get into the tank because the Valve is closed.

I understand what you do to use it but I think you’re making assumptions about how it’s plumbed. Since you didn’t really answer where the valve physically is, I’ll explain with a generic response. Even with a direct fill valve from the city water to the tank, you probably still have another path back through the pump. The fill port to the tank is completely separate from where the pump draws its water from the tank so shutting that valve doesn’t do anything to help a broken pump check valve. Tank fill valves are simply a shunt to over to what would have been a gravity fill.

Search Google images for “rv water system diagram” and look at the 2nd picture. It shows a 2-way valve at the city inlet. There’s still a pressurized path that can fail back through the pump.

Maybe there’s some other way your rig is plumbed but I can’t imagine it without more valves involved than necessary.

I did answer where the valve is, it’s on the line going into the tank. I only have one line going into and out of the tank. It has a ball valve, when I want to fill it I hook up a hose and fill it, when it’s full I unhook or turn off the city water an it gravity feeds out of my tank to the pump. If I want to use city water I close the valve to the tank to stop it from filling and use city water pressure. That about as plainly as I can explain. One line to my tank with a ball valve.

wnjj

Cornelius, Oregon

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Posted: 02/19/18 09:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Farmboy666 wrote:

I did answer where the valve is, it’s on the line going into the tank. I only have one line going into and out of the tank. It has a ball valve, when I want to fill it I hook up a hose and fill it, when it’s full I unhook or turn off the city water an it gravity feeds out of my tank to the pump. If I want to use city water I close the valve to the tank to stop it from filling and use city water pressure. That about as plainly as I can explain. One line to my tank with a ball valve.


One more try and then I give up. One line and a ball valve doesn’t explain it enough. Where is the pump connected? Obviously the pressure side of the pump connects to the pressure side of the system but where does it get it’s input? From a tee in the line with the ball valve? On the tank side or other side of the ball valve on that line? Directly from the tank (though you said there’s only one line in/out)?

Simply saying there’s a line from the city water inlet to a ball valve to the tank doesn’t leave any more fittings to connect anything to. At a minimum I’m assuming the city inlet has a tee that goes to the pressure side of the system and to one side of the ball valve.

Forgetting filling the tank for the moment and consider this: If you can switch between city water and using the pump without moving any valves, then your pump is in between the pressure side and the tank and CAN leak back if it fails.

The reason I’m pressing this is it appears your RV is different than every one I’ve ever seen described, uses less parts and is apparently immune to pump check valve failure. If so this would be a nice upgrade to these standard systems.

The standard systems have 2 different paths between the pressure side (city inlet) and the tank. One is the pump. The other is a piped connection with the fill valve in line. They are in parallel. So if you open the fill valve city water fills the tank (and the pump would just circulate water back into the tank if you tried to run it this way). With the valve closed, the pump OR the city inlet can build pressure, but that pressure can leak back through a bad pump. RV’s without a fill valve just have a graviy fill that connects directly to the tank. As a cheat on some of those you can poke the outside shower hose back into the gravity fill and now your shower valve becomes a fill valve.

Hopefully this discussion helps the OP to understand and locate his issue.

* This post was last edited 02/19/18 09:38pm by wnjj *   View edit history

Farmboy666

Pisgah Forest, NC

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Joined: 07/01/2017

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Posted: 02/20/18 08:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wnjj wrote:

Farmboy666 wrote:

I did answer where the valve is, it’s on the line going into the tank. I only have one line going into and out of the tank. It has a ball valve, when I want to fill it I hook up a hose and fill it, when it’s full I unhook or turn off the city water an it gravity feeds out of my tank to the pump. If I want to use city water I close the valve to the tank to stop it from filling and use city water pressure. That about as plainly as I can explain. One line to my tank with a ball valve.


One more try and then I give up. One line and a ball valve doesn’t explain it enough. Where is the pump connected? Obviously the pressure side of the pump connects to the pressure side of the system but where does it get it’s input? From a tee in the line with the ball valve? On the tank side or other side of the ball valve on that line? Directly from the tank (though you said there’s only one line in/out)?

Simply saying there’s a line from the city water inlet to a ball valve to the tank doesn’t leave any more fittings to connect anything to. At a minimum I’m assuming the city inlet has a tee that goes to the pressure side of the system and to one side of the ball valve.

Forgetting filling the tank for the moment and consider this: If you can switch between city water and using the pump without moving any valves, then your pump is in between the pressure side and the tank and CAN leak back if it fails.

The reason I’m pressing this is it appears your RV is different than every one I’ve ever seen described, uses less parts and is apparently immune to pump check valve failure. If so this would be a nice upgrade to these standard systems.

The standard systems have 2 different paths between the pressure side (city inlet) and the tank. One is the pump. The other is a piped connection with the fill valve in line. They are in parallel. So if you open the fill valve city water fills the tank (and the pump would just circulate water back into the tank if you tried to run it this way). With the valve closed, the pump OR the city inlet can build pressure, but that pressure can leak back through a bad pump. RV’s without a fill valve just have a graviy fill that connects directly to the tank. As a cheat on some of those you can poke the outside shower hose back into the gravity fill and now your shower valve becomes a fill valve.

Hopefully this discussion helps the OP to understand and locate his issue.

I guess I assumed that it was obvious there is a tee in the line. I also assumed that when I say I open the ball valve and it gravity feeds to the pump that you can figure out where the pump gets it's feed from. I don't know how else to explain it and I know it works. My original statement was if the check valve in the pump fails it cannot fill my tank because it's either already getting the water from the tank or the ball valve is closed and I'm on city water. I know plumbing can be hard to explain or understand sometimes. I have been building houses for 40+ years and started plumbing in the 70's so I have some experience. RV plumbing can be complicated and maybe the guy who plumbed mine was either having a good day or a bad day since it looks like I'm the only person in the US who has this system. Either way that's what I have and like you I'm giving up. Happy camping

Wild Card

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Posted: 02/20/18 05:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Pump has a checkvalve that is leaking by. Take suction line off pump and connect city water and watch the results. Replace pump


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augustpilot

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Posted: 02/20/18 07:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks everyone for all responses. I turned off city water, turned on water pump and ran until tank was empty. Then turned on city water , everything normal, the tank has not refilled via pump. My water tank gravity fills from side of coach. Then water is pumped from tank with water pump. Only way water got back to,tank was through the pump. The valve seemed to have reset in pump and now working ok.


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