RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: The confounding 3/4 ton truck...

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > The confounding 3/4 ton truck...

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 6  
Next
Sponsored By:
Mickeyfan0805

SE Wisconsin

Senior Member

Joined: 11/26/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 03:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Let me start by saying I do not have, nor am I currently in the market for, a truck. So, I have no horse in this race! I am, however, genuinely curious in looking for 'reliably sourced' information on payload ratings for 3/4 trucks.

There is a constant argument on the ceaseless 'What can I tow?' threads in which people claim that individuals should ignore the published ratings of their 3/4 ton trucks and go by axle and tire ratings instead. People make claims about what is a legal issue, what is a DOT issue, what is a vehicle classification issue, etc...

What I haven't seen, however, is reliably sourced information that is something other than one person or another's opinion on the matter.

So, I'm genuinely curious and asking. Can anyone point me to a reliable source that can explain these issues and parse the considerations? Knowing that any rating is limited by the weakest link in the chain, is there someone that can express how to know which elements should be considered? I understand the reasons for the arguments people make in these questions, but I've never seen anything but personal opinions. I'm just wondering if there is more definitive information out there.

wilber1

Abbotsford B.C.

Senior Member

Joined: 12/16/2002

View Profile



Posted: 04/16/18 04:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Here's how it works in BC.


"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC

2011 RAM 3500 SRW
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

coolmom42

Middle Tennessee

Senior Member

Joined: 02/18/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 04:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The big problem is that trucks any more come with multiple trim levels and those often have different payloads and tow ratings. You need to find out the EXACT information for the EXACT vehicle you are looking at, don't just take the first number that pops up in Google.

IMHO you can't ignore any of the numbers. You are limited by the lowest value, whether that is cargo capacity, tow rating, or axle rating.


2006 Toyota Sienna
Single empty-nester in Middle TN

Me Again

Sunbird(Wa)/snowbird(Az)

Senior Member

Joined: 09/26/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 04:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Some quotes from LEO Wadcutter, who is a member of this forum.

"Manufacturers do not make the law. Legislatures make the law. The sticker doesn't mean anything about what is legal to haul. It's like the tag on your mattress. It tells you what the vehicle is about.
I taught truck and vehicle law for over 20 years and was recognized by the courts in truck weights. I didn't get my knowledge by listening to some fat guy around a campfire like a lot of the 'experts' on this forum. "

"Another one who stayed at a Holiday Inn or listened to the fat guy around a campfire.
Not at all true. The above doesn't even make any sense. Weight laws apply to all vehicles on the road. Doesn't matter if private or commercial.
Does anyone think their E rated pickup tires will support 20,000 lbs on a single axle? Seriously? Do you think your pickup will haul 40,000 lbs? 20,000 is generally max axle weight limit.
Does anyone think their tandem axle 5er weighs anywhere close to 34,000 lbs? 34,000 lbs is generally the max tandem axle weight limit.
For a pickup pulling a 5er do you really think your total weight is anywhere near 74,000 lbs?
If anyone thinks they are then they really aren't too sharp on comprehending weight numbers. Think about it. I know all those big numbers confuse some people. Your ton pickup is going to weight around 8000 lbs. Your big 5er is going to weigh 15,000 lbs, maybe, most likely less. 23,000 lbs total, maybe. You're no where even close to the max axle weight limits. "

"Legal axle weights are generally 20,000 on a single axle, 34,000 on a tandem axle, and 80,000 lbs on 5 axles. Do you really think you exceed any of those weights? Seriously? All those 'big numbers' confuse people. Let's put this in perspective since people apparently have a real difficultly comprehending weights.
Look at that truck tractor semi trailer running down the road. Empty weight on that rig is going to be about 23,000 lbs.
Now look at that ton pickup with a 40 ft 5er for example. The pickup will weigh about 8000 lbs. The 5er loaded may weigh 14,000 lbs. Total weight, loaded, 22,000 lbs.
So you're loaded 5th weighs less than that empty semi truck you see on the road. That empty semi will weigh more on 1 axle than your entire ton pickup.
You think you're overloaded with E rated tires on your pickup and maybe G rated tires on your 5er? You're not even close. Your tires would never support the weight to be overweight. Overweight? Let's be realistic folks. You're not even close."

"I weighed trucks for a lot of years. I taught weight laws for a lot of years. The courts recognized my training and experience as an expert in weight laws.
You're not going to be overweight so quit worrying about it. You're not going to have to unload your wife's rock collection. No one is going to get a ticket. You're not going to jail."


2015 RAM 3500 CC SB SRW Our Rig New 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Commuter trailer 2019 Laredo 225MK. Retired and enjoying it!


Lwiddis

Los Angeles :(

Senior Member

Joined: 08/12/2016

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 04:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You do have a horse in the race. Otherwise you wouldn’t have posted.


2015 Winnebago 2101DS TT & Tahoe LTZ, 300 watts WindyNation solar-parallel & MPPT, Trojan T-125s. TALL flagpole for US flag. Prefer USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, USF&WS, state & county camps. Bicyclist! 14 year Army vet - 11B40 then 11A - old MOS 1542 & 1560.


demiles

Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 06/20/2003

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 06:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I like to look at it in the following way. Towing safe, towing legal, and towing within manufactures limits are three different things.
Towing safe is in the head of the driver.
Towing legal are limits set by federal, state , and local govs, can apply to RVs depending.
Towing within manufactures limits are staying within GVWR, GAWR, and GCWR as set by them

All three matter for different reasons so it’s best to strive to satisfy all of them.


2008 Jayco G2 28RBS
2016 Nissan XD 5.0L Cummins

Old-Biscuit

Verde Valley

Senior Member

Joined: 06/20/2009

View Profile



Posted: 04/16/18 06:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Everyone has to decide for themselves which 'ratings' define SAFE

Search for any LAW/Statute that covers GVWR/Payload Ratings....good luck with that

Easy to find DOT Laws/Statues that pertains to Axle/Tire Load Ratings.


For ME..my personal CHOICE is to use the Axle/Tire Load Ratings and NOT exceed those ratings

GVWR/Payload are NOT 'LEGAL' issues.


Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
On the Road Debt Free April '07
Off the road still Debt Free Jan. '14

Me Again

Sunbird(Wa)/snowbird(Az)

Senior Member

Joined: 09/26/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 06:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

demiles wrote:

I like to look at it in the following way. Towing safe, towing legal, and towing within manufactures limits are three different things.
Towing safe is in the head of the driver.
Towing legal are limits set by federal, state , and local govs, can apply to RVs depending.
Towing within manufactures limits are staying within GVWR, GAWR, and GCWR as set by them

All three matter for different reasons so it’s best to strive to satisfy all of them.


So do you think hotshots loose warranty for being over manufacturers GVWR, GAWR or GCWR? Do you know any RVer that has had their warranty voided for being over the manufacturers GVWR, GAWR or GCWR?

demiles

Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 06/20/2003

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 06:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sorry to answer the question just take a look at the SAE j2807 towing standard. It’s what the manufactures use to determine TWR (tow weight rating.
http://fifthwheelst.com/documents/tow-test-standards-2016-02.pdf

demiles

Maryland

Senior Member

Joined: 06/20/2003

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 04/16/18 06:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Me Again wrote:

demiles wrote:

I like to look at it in the following way. Towing safe, towing legal, and towing within manufactures limits are three different things.
Towing safe is in the head of the driver.
Towing legal are limits set by federal, state , and local govs, can apply to RVs depending.
Towing within manufactures limits are staying within GVWR, GAWR, and GCWR as set by them

All three matter for different reasons so it’s best to strive to satisfy all of them.


So do you think hotshots loose warranty for being over manufacturers GVWR, GAWR or GCWR? Do you know any RVer that has had their warranty voided for being over the manufacturers GVWR, GAWR or GCWR?


Who mentioned warranty?

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 6  
Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > The confounding 3/4 ton truck...
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:

© 2018 CWI, Inc. © 2018 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved. | Terms of Use | PRIVACY POLICY | YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS