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Open Roads Forum  >  Fifth-Wheels

 > First trip with Andersen Ultimate Hitch

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cummins2014

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Posted: 11/02/18 11:07pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dayle1 wrote:

Learjet wrote:

here is what Anderson says about chains ...I'm just passing on info
https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq/do-........s-for-my-ultimate-fifth-wheel-connection


Something strange about their statements that does not add up. On their website, the product description for the coupler says
Quote:

And since the coupler rides on a ball, it has more swivel in every direction than any other 5th wheel hitch available.
. Yet the FAQ wants to claim there is no ball pivot. It says specifically
Quote:

The Andersen Ultimate Connection does not utilize a latch nor does it pivot at the point of the ball.
Which is totally false. When you attach their coupler to the 2" king pin, the point of connection is clearly a ball connection just like any other.


Totally false ??? , you missed the ball on that one, no pun intended . What it is saying is there is no pivot at the point of connection .The Andersen hitch sits on the gooseneck ball in the bed of the truck, and there is no pivot point there.

The pivot point is at the king pin connection with the hitch, same as any other conventional fifth wheel hitch that pivots at that point of connection , yes the Andersen does have more pivot. A gooseneck hitch pivots at the ball in the bed of the truck .

Totally two different points of pivoting . totally two different style of hitches. The Andersen Ultimate is no more a gooseneck hitch then the B&W. They both have the same thing in common they both attach to the bed with a gooseneck ball. Get over the fact that it is NOT a gooseneck hitch.

The Andersen hitch try as much as you like to say its different ,but the point of connection ,and the point of pivot is the same as any other conventional hitch. The grey area is the adapter on the kingpin to utilize the ball at the top of the hitch .

We can argue the need for chains as much as you like, but facts remains on the reasons for chains on ball connection hitches. None of those apply to the Andersen .Would I lose a case in an incident with the Andersen without chains , probably. And most likely because some states don't have the good sense to know the difference .

cummins2014

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Posted: 11/02/18 11:19pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DutchmenSport wrote:



Thanks for that bit of information. Let's hope everyone who has the Andersen hitch will consider what's been discussed here.

I don't have an Andersen. Like I mentioned earlier, I've been a 5er owner only 5 weeks now, still learning. But as a TT owner, I was always encouraging folks to always think safety first over price. So many will spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a fabulous tow vehicle and a magnificent trailer, then cheap-out on the hitch that connects them together. I never understood that mind-set. Or they'd argue paying $50.00 for a friction sway bar, or argue an extra $100 for a hitch system that would better fit their unique rig combination.

Learning more and more about these 5er's, I'm realizing there is just as much and just as many safety concerns as any TT set-up.

Like I said, I don't have the Andersen, simply because I accepted my dealer stock decisions and so far, been very happy with that. Of course, I've not had any problems "yet" either, so I have nothing to compare.

But this much I know, safety should always come first above the cost of anything. If safety is too costly, then you are engaging in the wrong activity.

I'm surprised to see the chains. I've never seen that in a fifth wheel set up. I've never paid any attention to goose necks. Around where I live, goose necks are used on the farm, and I'm surrounded by farm county. But I still never paid any attention to how they were hitched.

Safety? Yea! use the chains! I think that's good wisdom, even if your state doesn't require them.



Good wisdom on the chains where, with the Andersen or any fifth wheel hitch ?????? . Do remember here folks, we ALL are required to have a breakaway cable to set the brakes on a fifth wheel in case it comes undone from the hitch, what has changed with the Andersen ????? It comes undone the breakaway cable gets pulled .

Safety you say, those chains would be just about as effective as spitting on a forest fire, really safety ??? Have you seen the safety chain setup that Andersen sells.

* This post was edited 11/03/18 08:04am by an administrator/moderator *

Super_Dave

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Posted: 11/03/18 09:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I was thinking that the chains would have a greater chance of creating a tow vehicle rollover.

I once drove several miles with my boat and an unclosed jaw without the trailer coming off. That was approximately 300 pounds of tongue weight. I have a hard time wrapping my head around 3000 pounds jumping the ball. I’m sure it can but still hard for me to imagine.


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cummins2014

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Posted: 11/03/18 10:10am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have went over some spots on the freeway that I thought was going to tear my fifth wheel loose from my truck. I sure wouldn't want that Andersen latch to be open on that ball .

My rail mount Andersen has a 20K rating, thats a bit of weight for those chains to handle that Andersen sells. Adding those chains to your Andersen fifth wheel setup IMO is a CYA .

* This post was edited 11/03/18 10:19am by an administrator/moderator *

Housted

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Posted: 11/03/18 10:19am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Not proud of it, but, I have driven on 2 days where I forgot to latch my AUH.
Went over bumpyroads and everything no problem.
Safety chains are a joke...we rolled a TT due to PIO (wife) and the
chains lasted about a nanosecond. We were useing a square bar WD hitch
and bent both 1.25 inch bars and broke the hitch head.
We went from a B&W hitch to the AUH because the B&W was too heavy
for me to remove from the truck. B&W is a fine hitch.

Housted
BTW I do have a chain setup for my AUH should I ever be made to install them.


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  • cummins2014

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    Posted: 11/03/18 10:28am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    Housted wrote:

    Not proud of it, but, I have driven on 2 days where I forgot to latch my AUH.
    Went over bumpyroads and everything no problem.
    Safety chains are a joke...we rolled a TT due to PIO (wife) and the
    chains lasted about a nanosecond. We were useing a square bar WD hitch
    and bent both 1.25 inch bars and broke the hitch head.

    Housted
    BTW I do have a chain setup for my AUH should I ever be made to install them.



    Thats pretty scary, but its nice to know it didn't come undone. Thats the one thing that is double or triple checked on mine that the latch is closed.

    Safety chains, I have seen some pretty heavy duty chains, but those Andersen chains are not.
    Nanosecond is just about right, one good whip of that fifth wheel ,and those chains would be history, most likely the threaded eye bolt would go first.

    Thermoguy

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    Posted: 11/03/18 02:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    I have always been surprised that it is not necessary to have safety chains even with a 5th wheel hitch. Seems like since it is not welded to the frame of the truck anything could happen. It's also a hitch so it could come undone. You never know.

    The purpose of safety chains is to keep the trailer connected to the truck so they should be large enough to hold the trailer given that the brakes on the trailer are also locked due to the brake away cable should be shorter than the chains. Therefore, the trailer is stopping, the truck is stopping and the chains help to keep these things together. I have always hauled goose neck trailers before buying the 5th wheel so chains are just a normal part of hitching up the trailer. Seems odd to me that people think it is OK to not have safety chains...

    Knock on wood - I've never had to test the strength of any of the chains on any of my trailers.

    gkainz

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    Posted: 11/03/18 04:21pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    Re above apparent discrepancies of “on a ball” or not “on a ball” ... it says “the coupler rides on a ball” which it does, and it says “the Andersen Ultimate connection ... does not...”.
    Both true statements. The coupler, up top, rides on the ball at the top of the unit, while the whole hitch is fastened securely to the gooseneck ball in the bed of the truck and supported by the picture frame. It does not swivel, rotate or move about the ball.
    Two different point of contact under discussion.


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    Cummins12V98

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    Posted: 11/03/18 07:27pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    "Not proud of it, but, I have driven on 2 days where I forgot to latch my AUH."

    That's why I LOCK my handle closed.

    Can you lock yours???


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    Dayle1

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    Posted: 11/03/18 09:08pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    cummins2014 wrote:

    Dayle1 wrote:

    Learjet wrote:

    here is what Anderson says about chains ...I'm just passing on info
    https://help.andersenhitches.com/faq/do-........s-for-my-ultimate-fifth-wheel-connection


    Something strange about their statements that does not add up. On their website, the product description for the coupler says
    Quote:

    And since the coupler rides on a ball, it has more swivel in every direction than any other 5th wheel hitch available.
    . Yet the FAQ wants to claim there is no ball pivot. It says specifically
    Quote:

    The Andersen Ultimate Connection does not utilize a latch nor does it pivot at the point of the ball.
    Which is totally false. When you attach their coupler to the 2" king pin, the point of connection is clearly a ball connection just like any other.


    Totally false ??? , you missed the ball on that one, no pun intended . What it is saying is there is no pivot at the point of connection .The Andersen hitch sits on the gooseneck ball in the bed of the truck, and there is no pivot point there.

    The pivot point is at the king pin connection with the hitch, same as any other conventional fifth wheel hitch that pivots at that point of connection , yes the Andersen does have more pivot. A gooseneck hitch pivots at the ball in the bed of the truck .

    Totally two different points of pivoting . totally two different style of hitches. The Andersen Ultimate is no more a gooseneck hitch then the B&W. They both have the same thing in common they both attach to the bed with a gooseneck ball. Get over the fact that it is NOT a gooseneck hitch.

    The Andersen hitch try as much as you like to say its different ,but the point of connection ,and the point of pivot is the same as any other conventional hitch. The grey area is the adapter on the kingpin to utilize the ball at the top of the hitch .

    We can argue the need for chains as much as you like, but facts remains on the reasons for chains on ball connection hitches. None of those apply to the Andersen .Would I lose a case in an incident with the Andersen without chains , probably. And most likely because some states don't have the good sense to know the difference .


    Sorry, I understand that the point of connection for the HITCH is at the GN ball and it does not pivot. In that respect the Andersen HITCH is no different than a B&W Companion HITCH. That is how both hitches are secured to the truck, one uses an actual ball, the other uses the ball socket. Forget about that version, the rail version is secured with 4 pins just like many true fifth wheel hitches. But for both versions, Andersen adds a coupler, that is part of the hitch system and totally required for it to function. That coupler changes the final hook up point from being a pin connection to a ball connection. It is that final connection that needs the chains. Chains aren't needed as a backup in case the hitch disconnects from the truck, but in case the coupler disconnects from the ball at the top of the hitch. The Andersen is a ball connection just like any other ball connection and the reason for chains is just as valid.

    Consider a conventional TT setup, the law doesn't require chains between the receiver and the truck or even between the hitch head and the truck. They are required between the trailer and the truck because the final connection is a ball connection. Simple.

    * This post was edited 11/04/18 06:55am by Dayle1 *


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