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Open Roads Forum  >  Class A Motorhomes  >  General Topics

 > 50 amp surge protectors

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CA Traveler

The Western States

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Posted: 12/04/18 07:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Why should a 50A RV have a power protector/EMS? Regardless of the brand. [emoticon]

There are many posts on this subject and it's not understood by most RVers.

The bottom line: Unlike 30A a open neutral on 50A can/will supply up to 240V to your 120V appliances. This lets the smoke out. [emoticon] The most likely source for this is a worn pedestal or your cord/plug.

If you have a 50A RV then give very serious consideration to the additional protection.

Choose brand x, y or z, but choose.


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Bob


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Posted: 12/04/18 07:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My unusual high voltage event.

Shortly after installing my EMS I had 160V at 10:00 PM due to a open neutral. My inside remote displayed the high voltage and I could not get disconnected from the CG pedestal quick enough.

This was on a 30A pedestal so a open neutral cannot cause high voltage! Right? [emoticon]

Think again. [emoticon] The open neutral was in the CG 120/240V distribution system which feeds 20A and 30A 120V circuits. BTW A 120/240V distribution system is extremely common and exists in 99.9999% of every home. For my home it's a 200A or 200A x 240V = 48,000 watt system. A 50A RV circuit is 50*240 = 12,000 watts.

Don't leave home without EMS protection as CGs tend to be over used and under maintained.

westom

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Posted: 12/04/18 08:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CA Traveler wrote:

Shortly after installing my EMS I had 160V at 10:00 PM due to a open neutral. My inside remote displayed the high voltage and I could not get disconnected from the CG pedestal quick enough.

Anything that requires manual intervention means that excessive voltage existed forever. Overvoltage means response must be automatic - well less than a second. To any appliance, one second is almost forever. A protector must disconnect automatically (fast enough) due to any Hi/Lo voltage, missing safety ground, and open neutral.

These type surges typically do not exist in homes. A surge protector for homes address anomalies (surges) that are different from what typically exists in campgrounds. Compromised neutral and voltage variations are unfortunately surges common in campgrounds. A protector must automatically protect from those anomalies to be fast enough.

pianotuna

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Posted: 12/04/18 11:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The Sola Basic does buck voltage at 135 down 10%. That's not enough to protect from an open neutral. However, I believe that open neutral "feed" to a 30 amp pedestal depends on the campground. In other words, it is their fault. So it should be their dollars to fix it. I also believe it would be an extremely rare event. I always check voltage under load before I plug in my RV.

What is common is low voltage. I've seen 100 volts, unloaded. That becomes a nuisance to the RV owner with disconnects at 102 and 104 (both too low for my comfort zone).


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CA Traveler

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Posted: 12/04/18 01:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westom wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:

Shortly after installing my EMS I had 160V at 10:00 PM due to a open neutral. My inside remote displayed the high voltage and I could not get disconnected from the CG pedestal quick enough.

Anything that requires manual intervention means that excessive voltage existed forever. Overvoltage means response must be automatic - well less than a second.
Guess I wasn't clear. The HW50C disconnects the downstream power to the RV withing a few milliseconds. Then with a remaining wide range of upstream voltage it displays voltage, etc but MOST important an error code. It also displays a prior error code which can be useful for knowing that there was a low voltage event while you weren't staring at the remote display for example.

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Posted: 12/04/18 02:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

The Sola Basic does buck voltage at 135 down 10%. That's not enough to protect from an open neutral. However, I believe that open neutral "feed" to a 30 amp pedestal depends on the campground. In other words, it is their fault. So it should be their dollars to fix it. I also believe it would be an extremely rare event. I always check voltage under load before I plug in my RV.

What is common is low voltage. I've seen 100 volts, unloaded. That becomes a nuisance to the RV owner with disconnects at 102 and 104 (both too low for my comfort zone).
I don't check the unloaded voltage because the HW50C will not connect the RV when there is low voltage. And it disconnects if the voltage becomes low.

Agreed that high voltage is not common in the US and Canada.

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Posted: 12/04/18 02:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westom wrote:

Mile High wrote:

Kind of splitting hairs on the chart I guess - I see a couple more things PI does that SG does not, but I see SG handles higher spikes.

The PI has higher spike protection.
according to the chart, 130,000 SG, 88,000 PI.


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westom

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Posted: 12/04/18 05:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Max Spike (Amps):
SG 6,500 , 6,500 \/ PI 44,000 , 22,500
SG 6,500 per MOV \/ PI 44,000 , 44,000
SG 6,500 , 6,500 \/ PI 88,000 , 45,000 , 45,000
SG 130,000 , 36,000 \/ PI 88,000 , 88,000

Most PIs have higher numbers.

Which is irrelevant if that protector does not have a low impedance connection to earth. Those numbers are relevant only if that current connects low impedance (ie at the pedestal) to what must absorb that energy.

Furthermore, a minimal parameter for that one type of surge is 50,000 amps.

Again, this anomaly is rare in campgrounds. Other anomalies are a greater concern. If this anomaly is a concern to an RV owner, then his protector must make a low impedance connection to earth by attaching at that pedestal.

pianotuna

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Posted: 12/04/18 09:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

An undocumented feature of the magnum hybrid inverter charger is that it will not connect to low voltage. But I do not know what that particular voltage is.

Mile High

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Posted: 12/05/18 08:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westom wrote:

Max Spike (Amps):
SG 6,500 , 6,500 \/ PI 44,000 , 22,500
SG 6,500 per MOV \/ PI 44,000 , 44,000
SG 6,500 , 6,500 \/ PI 88,000 , 45,000 , 45,000
SG 130,000 , 36,000 \/ PI 88,000 , 88,000

Most PIs have higher numbers.

Which is irrelevant if that protector does not have a low impedance connection to earth. Those numbers are relevant only if that current connects low impedance (ie at the pedestal) to what must absorb that energy.

Furthermore, a minimal parameter for that one type of surge is 50,000 amps.

Again, this anomaly is rare in campgrounds. Other anomalies are a greater concern. If this anomaly is a concern to an RV owner, then his protector must make a low impedance connection to earth by attaching at that pedestal.
I was comparing Apple's to Apple's for the HWC50 in discussion, not generalizing, but whatever.

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