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Open Roads Forum  >  General RVing Issues

 > Looking for a generator

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cummins2014

Utah

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Posted: 01/30/19 11:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2manytoyz wrote:

I've been using a Yamaha EF2400iS generator since 2006. Not only does it power our travel trailer, but it also powers my critical items in my house during outages.

The key selling point for me was this Yamaha was designed to start & run a 13,500 BTU A/C unit alone. It takes two Honda 2KW generators to do this same job. From all I've read, this is the only generator on the market that fills the niche of a single, small, lightweight, QUIET generator, capable of running an RV A/C unit. You could buy a bigger generator to do the same function, but the noise, weight, and price start going up rapidly. Pay close attention to the rated noise level. Ever 3dB doubles the sound energy. This one is rated at 53-58 dB. The Champion 3500W is rated at 68 dB. To put that in perspective, mine at full load is 58 dB, double the noise (+3dB), would be 61 dB, double it again, 64 dB, again, 67 dB. I have a Champion 7500W generator also, rated at 74 dB. Fine for occasional heavy loads (water heater, pool pump, water pump, etc.), but incredibly noisy compared to the Yamaha. It also guzzles fuel. The Yamaha uses 1.6 gallons in 8 hours. Less than 5 gallons/day.

We've been through multiple hurricanes, and have used it to run a portable A/C (we're in FL), fridge, TV, lights, fan, computer equipment, etc. If we want to run the microwave, we turn the A/C compressor off briefly.

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Buy a good one, never look back. Don't find many requests for people wanting to make a Yamaha or Honda generator more quiet. But take a look on Google for people with Champion generators trying to get the noise down. And FWIW, adding a bigger muffler won't do it. That's only one source of the noise. The second being the intake, third being the mechanical movements. There's a reason why the true quiet ones cost so much.

The 3500W Predator is worth consideration, but at $769.00, the price is encroaching on the Yamahas and Hondas. Do a Google/YouTube search of idle/surging issues with them brand new.



But as we speak the Predator 3500 is on sale for $699.99. Encroaching on a 2200 Honda or the 2000 Yamaha, at $1000 I guess somewhat close, but comparing apples to apples, like say the Honda 3500 for just over $2000, not in the ballpark.

No argument , the Honda or Yamaha are the better generators, and the price reflects it . I did watch a youtube video of the Predator 3500, impressive, and surprisingly quiet for the price tag. The youtube I watched it sure seemed to run pretty smooth, idle ,and under load. He ran it the break-in period, and then under load .

For my use I wouldn't hesitate on a Predator 2000, or 3500. I have read more then once on forums that people were pretty happy with them ,couple years from now who knows.

I own an older Honda 2000, been great. But its very touchy, if it even sits a month or two with out running with gas in it, I am tearing it apart to clean the carburetor to get it to run right . I tried a gas treatment, and that didn't work, it was either dump the gas ,or run it out of gas , there is no shutoff on them. So as said it was either dump the gas ,or run it often. So I read up on it, and found a youtube video of someone adding a shutoff valve, problem solved.

Two friends with the Honda 2000's, and have had the same issues. Got to run them often or dump the gas .

2manytoyz

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Posted: 01/30/19 11:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DrewE wrote:


It's worth observing that, while 3 dB is indeed a doubling of power in a physics sense, it doesn't sound twice as loud subjectively; it's only a modest increase in perceived volume. Generally somewhere around 10 dB is accepted as what is subjectively "twice as loud" though it varies with the person, the nature of the noise in question, and probably some other things.


Notice I said "sound energy". Perceived noise level is subjective.

As mentioned, I do have a Champion generator, which is "only" 74 dB. Also notice the sound rating is from 23' away. Stand next to it for a few minutes without hearing protection, the expression on your face will say it all... besides, unless you're screaming, I wouldn't be able to hear you!

[image]

If you walk around the side of the house, the Yamaha cannot be heard. Start my Champion, you can hear it over a block away. Since I use the Champion for post hurricane emergency outages, noise isn't a factor. Everybody will be running cheap generators until the fuel runs out. The Yamaha sips gas, and will be used long after gas stations have run out of fuel. In 2004, power went out in our county for 18 days. All gas station were closed (no power), or were already empty.

I've owned cheap/loud generators. I've spent money trying to make them quiet. If you don't care about noise, and are located in an area with no neighbors or rules, no reason to spend the extra money. But if you want quiet, spend the money and get it. My requirements aren't the same as everyone else's. Just sharing some experience before someone potentially makes a regrettable decision if noise is a factor. I have 3 generators, all have different pros/cons. YMMV.


Robert
Merritt Island, FL
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http://www.2manytoyz.com/


2manytoyz

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Posted: 01/30/19 01:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Boon Docker wrote:

Champion 3500 - 59db


That's not "the cheap Champion" generator. That's their newer inverter model. $1,299.99 at Camping World, Overtons, Gander Mountain, etc.

That's as much as the Yamaha 3000W model: https://www.cabelas.com/product/YAMAHA-P........Bx1YIwwkEAQYASABEgJB6PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds "Smart Throttleâ„¢ automatically adjusts engine speed to match the electrical load required, resulting in quieter operation and greater fuel efficiency."

The inverter model Champion IS much quieter than their standard 3500, but there are some caveats. The Yamaha (and Honda) run only as fast as the load demands. The speed is variable. According to the owner's manual on the Champion, The Economy Control switch can be activated in order to minimize fuel consumption and noise while operating the unit during times of reduced electrical output, allowing the engine speed to idle during periods of non-use. The engine speed returns to normal when an electrical load is connected. When the economy switch is off, the engine runs at normal speed continuously.

So when the load is applied, it runs at "normal speed". That's the equivalent of full load on the variable speed Yamaha and Honda. That's a very noticeable difference between 53 dB (no load - 1/4 load), and 58 dB (full load) on the Yamaha. Most of the time, I run it well below full load, even when running the 13,500 BTU roof top A/C unit.

Here's what it takes to start my Dometic A/C:

[image]

It takes a specialized meter to capture the "in rush" current. A standard meter, or Kill-A-Watt, is far too slow.

Compare that to the running current:

[image]

This is why the Honda 2KW can't reliably start, or restart the A/C unit when there's a head pressure on it. The Yamaha 2.4KW generator has the same sized engine as their 2800W, and 3000W generators (at least the models at same time of production), giving it the ability to handle the same start up spike as the larger models.

During previous hurricanes, I used the Yamaha to run a 5000 BTU window A/C in our home. That was just under 5A, which kept the generator at idle, 53 dB. The Champion would have been at 59 dB, 4x the sound energy. Huge difference? No, but definitely noticeable. And with the 3500W inverter Champion generator being near the price range of some Yamaha and Honda models, you're not getting an equivalent product. Even my 1980s era Craftsman generator had the built-in idle feature:

[image]

The idle feature was almost useless to me since any load would cause it to run full speed (same method according to Champion owner's manual). If I didn't need it to operate, no need to leave it idling.

It doesn't matter to me what anyone buys, but since questions were asked, I'm pointing out differences. Do your research, and if possible, go take a listen to one in person.

apr67

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Posted: 01/30/19 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cabelas has the champion 3500 remote start for 950, free shipping.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/CHAMPION-REMOTE-INVERTER/2236565.uts?slotId=10


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D.E.Bishop

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Posted: 01/30/19 03:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2manytoyz wrote:

badsix wrote:

check your facts, Champion specs there 3500w remote start inverter gen at 59.0 dba. I just can't see a 2400w gen starting a 3500w A/C. my 3500w gen wouldn't start mine, I had to get a soft start now its ok.
Jay D.


My "facts" are from their website: https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/46533-3500-watt-generator/

"Fill up the 3.8-gallon tank of gasoline and enjoy up to 12 hours of power at 50% load. From 23 feet, the noise level is 68 dBA".


toomanytoyz, you are comparing apples and oranges. The genny you're quoting is an open frame contractors model and not an inverter. Please try and keep up.


"I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to go". R. L. Stevenson

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enblethen

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Posted: 01/30/19 03:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2manytoyz and Boon Docker are mixing apples and oranges. 2Manytoyz is a standard genset where Boon Docker is showing an inverter genset.


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badsix

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Posted: 01/30/19 10:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CHECK your FACTS again, that's a contractor gen not an inverter. unlike the 3500 inverter model 100262 at 59dba. Champion also has several 2000w inverters that run 53 dba
Jay D.

badsix

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Posted: 01/30/19 10:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CHECK your FACTS again, that's a contractor gen not an inverter. unlike the 3500 inverter model 100262 at 59dba. Champion also has several 2000w inverters that run 53 dba
Jay D.

2manytoyz

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Posted: 01/31/19 10:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

D.E.Bishop wrote:



toomanytoyz, you are comparing apples and oranges. The genny you're quoting is an open frame contractors model and not an inverter. Please try and keep up.


Please go back and read the post by wa8yxm, he's talking about contractor grade 3500, which is VERY popular with the RV crowd.

I also discussed the differences between the Champion 3500 inverter model verses the Honda and Yamaha inverter models, just a couple of posts above yours.

"I" have been keeping up. [emoticon]

2manytoyz

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Posted: 01/31/19 10:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

badsix wrote:

CHECK your FACTS again, that's a contractor gen not an inverter. unlike the 3500 inverter model 100262 at 59dba. Champion also has several 2000w inverters that run 53 dba
Jay D.


wa8yxm had mentioned the standard contractor grade Champion generator, to which I was referring to. A couple of posts above yours, I did compare the inverter model Champion. Several brands and models are being discussed.

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