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 > Large Helium balloon for locating RV when riding

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wa8yxm

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Posted: 03/13/19 07:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

Helium in the bottles that you can get is NOT cryogenic, meaning it's at room temp. .


You are half right.. You forgot Boyle's Law
Wikipedia

Which says that as the highly compressed gas in the room temp (or ambient air temp) tank escapes and expands the amount of heat per cubic foot remains the same so it comes out the nozzle.. Very very very cold. Over 100 below Zero.

With the bottle on its side liquid will be escapign the relief valve. and .. Well now you are looking at the vapor temp of the product at one standard atmosphere.. that's very close to absolute zero when it comes to helium.


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Tom_M

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Posted: 03/13/19 08:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wa8yxm wrote:

With the bottle on its side liquid will be escapign the relief valve. and .. Well now you are looking at the vapor temp of the product at one standard atmosphere.. that's very close to absolute zero when it comes to helium.
There is no way that you would get liquid helium by tipping the bottle on its side. Any liquid escaping would be condensed water vapor.


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agesilaus

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Posted: 03/13/19 10:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You are half right.. You forgot Boyle's Law
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No I am all right as Tom points out above any liquid you see is condensed water from the air or possibly in the tank tho that should not happen. You cannot drop the temp to -459 deg F by your Boyles Law mechanism.


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wa8yxm

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Posted: 03/13/19 03:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I agree the vapor you see is water vapor condensed out.. Have you ever worked with Liquid Helium? I also rememberd it is called Boyles law.. Which considering it was about 1870 when I had to know that.. Kind of surprised me.

agesilaus

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Posted: 03/13/19 04:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

No we had compressed Helium in the lab and used it for instruments. Liquid He is only seen in specialized facilities. They use it in high energy physics for example and in Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Instruments in Chemistry labs. Scientists are not happy with the current helium situation, something they've seen coming for years. They regard balloons and such as a waste of a precious resource.

I have worked with liquid Nitrogen which we occasionally used in truck load lots. It is a lot easier to use since it boils at much higher temps. And we occasionally used liquid Oxygen.

As for the ideal gas laws they were of major importance not only in Chemistry but also in physics and engineering. Much more important than the average persons would suspect.

Alan_Hepburn

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Posted: 03/14/19 04:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

I think retail sale of bulk hydrogen is by permit only. Maybe in excess of a certain quantity. Touched on this 25 years ago when perusing fuel cells. Hydrogen is nasty. The tiny atoms burrow their way through most container materials.


Hydrogen is easy to acquire - all you really need is a vat of water, a source of electricity, and some collecting containers. Drop your positive and negative electrodes into the water under your collectors and you get hydrogen in one of the containers and oxygen in the other - just don't try to recombine them!


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agesilaus

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Posted: 03/14/19 05:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Alan_Hepburn wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

I think retail sale of bulk hydrogen is by permit only. Maybe in excess of a certain quantity. Touched on this 25 years ago when perusing fuel cells. Hydrogen is nasty. The tiny atoms burrow their way through most container materials.


Hydrogen is easy to acquire - all you really need is a vat of water, a source of electricity, and some collecting containers. Drop your positive and negative electrodes into the water under your collectors and you get hydrogen in one of the containers and oxygen in the other - just don't try to recombine them!


Heh prepare to be patient if you try the electrolysis method or use a lot of power. As for hydrogen in the US you can buy hydrogen gas cylinders at a welding supply store. Glass blowers use oxy-hydrogen torches which burn hotter than acetylene torches. If you want a semiload maybe you need a permit but I don't know why that would be the case. Every large generation plant uses hydrogen to fill generators. It has electrical qualities that the electrical engineers like.

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Posted: 03/15/19 12:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The restrictions are DOT I remember remember correctly.

As I mentioned before hydrogen needs special consideration for storage, pumping and handling.

Fuel cells demand hydrogen as fuel. Other than that in a generating plant there is little need for it. it's when hydrogen gets got, it becomes Mr. Hyde. Impinged piping and vessels in an oil refinery requires periodic nuclear x-rays. I saw and heard a nickel size hole in lube hydrotreater line, ignite and blow one inch thick slabs of concrete over a 20' x 30' area get ripped from the plant's pad. Scary.

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Posted: 03/15/19 01:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

stacaz822 wrote:

At the dunes in Glamis, I have seen RV's with large helium balloons flying a couple hundred feet above them on a string or rope so riders can find their RV from a long distance. Does anyone know the best setup for doing that with a re-usable balloon and helium tank? Thanks!


Not an answer to your specific question ... but here's my head-scratching response: If you have cellular service, can't you save your RV's exact location on your cell phone, carry your cell phone with you, and then have it guide you precisely back to your RV?

I think I can do this with our satellite-based Garmin navigator unit set to Pedestrian Mode ... so probably cell phones can do the same ... but maybe they require cellular tower access to do it - I'm not sure.


Phil, 2005 E450 Itasca Spirit 24V

agesilaus

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Posted: 03/15/19 02:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

That is GPS

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