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Open Roads Forum  >  Fifth-Wheels

 > Is there really a 1/2 ton towable fifth wheel?

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valhalla360

No paticular place.

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Posted: 03/13/19 01:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Problem isn't on the trailer, it's the truck.

Payload is typically the limiting factor for any truck pulling a 5th wheel.

1/2 ton truck payloads can vary from as little as 1200lb to over 2500lb.

Assuming a small 6000lb 5th wheel (fully loaded) with 20-25% pin weight, the pin weight is going to be 1200-1500lb...even at the low end, add in a 150lb driver and the truck is over the limit.

With the "heavy duty 1/2 ton", a smallish 9000lb (fully loaded) 5th wheel might have a pin weight of 2000lb, leaving 500lb for people and cargo in the truck....still fairly limited but doable.


Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2008 Copper Canyon 5er
Catalac Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and 5er


2112

Texas

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Posted: 03/13/19 03:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hornnumb2, Are you by chance the person from Beach City I was talking to at Bucees a few weeks ago? Same area, same discussion, coincidence?

It depends on the truck. I barely stay within my numbers with 2000lb payload. You will have a little more wiggle room with your 2500HD because of the 6000lb rear axle. My rear axle is rated for 4200lb and I'm right at it.

This is my FW but I do not have the linen closet slide in the bedroom
https://www.kz-rv.com/2018-products/durango-1500-fifth-wheels/2018-D277RLT.html. The linen closet slide adds about 200lbs to the pin weight.

CAT weights ready to camp with DW and myself in the cab. Waste tanks are empty and about 10 gallons of fresh water.

[image]

What throws my rear axle weight WAY OVER max is towing with both waste tanks full.


CAT weights with camper disconnected

[image]

* This post was edited 03/13/19 04:05am by 2112 *


2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens, PullRite SuperGlide 2700 15K
2013 KZ Durango 2857


HadEnough

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Posted: 03/13/19 04:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Why don't they move the wheels forward a bit on 5th wheels, better balancing the trailer out and reducing pin weight?

When I distribute the load in my little cargo trailer, I keep the tongue weight down a bit.

rhagfo

Portland, OR

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Posted: 03/13/19 05:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

twodownzero wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

crcr wrote:

I've seen substantial size 5th wheels towed by half tons. They were clearly way beyond their payload rating, but they hid that fact with air bags to keep the truck level. If I see such a rig on the highway, I try to avoid being anywhere near them!


Not all long 5er are heavy.


It's the pin weight that is the problem.

I suspect there's a 24 foot 5er out there that might be somewhat safe with a 1/2 ton, but personally, I do not tow anything of substantial weight or regularly with any semi floating (rear) axle.

Nor do I, But that said there are many F150 Max/Max that have more available payload than some diesel 3/4 tons. Not saying that the 3/4 ton is not far more capable, just the way the class numbers work out.
We see many 1/2 tons carrying/pulling 5ers, most sit level and most while they look big on the outside are not that heavy.
I will also state that a 1/2 tom pulling a 30'+ 5er as long as they have enough tire on them, is far safe and far more stable than that same 1/2 ton towing a 30'+ TT, far less tail wagging the dog.
I worry more about those that feel they can carry/pull a 16,000#+ 5er with a 3/4 ton truck, paying no attention to tire capacity.


Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"


valhalla360

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Posted: 03/13/19 06:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

HadEnough wrote:

Why don't they move the wheels forward a bit on 5th wheels, better balancing the trailer out and reducing pin weight?

When I distribute the load in my little cargo trailer, I keep the tongue weight down a bit.


Light tongue/pin weights result in handling problems.

Now if you are pulling a 1000lb cargo trailer, a 6000lb 1/2ton can muscle thru and you likely don't notice that it's not a good setup.

The big reason 5th wheels tow better than bumper pulls even without the weight distributing hitch, sway control and other add ons, is they put more weight on the trucks rear axle and keep it planted.

thomas201

Eastern Panhandle WV

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Posted: 03/13/19 06:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Oldguy is right. I have the Wildcat version of the Cougar. I had a 2011 Silverado that was set up with the 5.3 and 3.73 gears, along with the towing package. It was a standard bed and rated for a 9600 pound trailer. Trailer was a new 2011 Wildcat.

Over the Cat scales at Flying J exit 2 in Jersey with a full freshwater tank, and loaded for a long camping trip:

Truck only:
Front 3320
Rear 2360
Gross 5680

Truck & Trailer:
Front 3180
Rear 3740
Trailer 8000
Gross 14920

Calculated:
Truck 6920
Pin 1240
Trailer 9240

So, with the truck rated at 7000, and the combined at 15000 and the trailer at 9600, I ain’t no bricks shy of a full load. I had 80# to spare! It was OK by the book, but the towing experience was poor. I ran out of power, and overheated the engine with strong winds and 105 temperatures crossing the plains. New trucks rated under the SAE standard might tow at max just fine, but maybe not?? I bought a 3/4 ton and now love towing the 5er.

GPG52!

BURLINGTON, ON

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Posted: 03/13/19 07:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We had a KZ Durango 1500 (30') pulled with a Dodge Ram mega cab, 1500, Hemi 5.7. Short box with a sidewinder hitch. We never had any issue towing from Canada to Florida and eastern seaboard areas.


GPG ">
2014 Ford F250, 6.2L, 4.30 Ratio, 6 speed
2014 Cougar (by Keystone) 327 RES

Hornnumb2

Baytown, TX

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Posted: 03/13/19 08:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

Hornnumb2 wrote:

Just got rid of my bumper pull and would like to do fifth wheel but the weights look over what I would expect.
__________________________________
2011 GMC Sierra Crewcab 2500HD 4x4

Well Hornnumb2's profile shows a GMC 2500 4X4. Doesn't state if 6.0 gas or 6.6 Dmax.
Likely could tow a 27' to 29' 1/2 ton 5er within payload. Something in the range of 10,000# to 12,000# GVWR, the lower number would be safer.


I still have the 3/4 but wanted to go back to 1/2 ton...

JIMNLIN

Oklahoma

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Posted: 03/13/19 08:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

op wrote:

I still have the 3/4 but wanted to go back to 1/2 ton...

Choose the right new gen 1/2 ton and it will have no problems towing a 5th wheel trailer within its rating. Choose a older gen 1/2 ton truck like some mention and it will struggle as others report.

If you want to stick with a GM then choose a 1500 6.2 engine with the NHT (max tow) package. You get a 7600 gvwr with 4300 rawr and a 8 speed tranny. The 6.2 engine cranks out 420 hp and 460 torque. The NHT package can come with 2000+ lb payloads.

The best bang for the bucks in the 1/2 ton arena is the F150 which comes with several package. The 3.5 ecoboost cranks our 375 hp and a huge 470 torque. The 3.5 gets some good mpg as a daily driver for many folks. Starting at the top is the F150 HDPP.

...7850 gvwr....4800 rawr good for up to around 2500 lbs in the bed.
...7550 gvwr....4550 rawr...................... 2200 lbs in the bed.
...7050 gvwr....4050 rawr...................... 1750 lbs in the bed.
...6800 gvwr....3800 rawr...................... 1500 lbs..........
Actual numbers depends on truck selections and scaled axle weight numbers.
Most F150 owners bit into the small 6800 gvwr/3800 rawr because it came with a max tow package (they all do). Max tow doesn't upgrade gvwr or the rawr so don't bit into it thinking it can give the truck max towing ability.

The 1500 Ram...... Low gvwr and smallish rawr numbers with rear coil springs isn't a the best option for a 5th wheel trailer. The 5.7 hemi with 3.92 gears is a strong performer.


"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 03/13/19 08:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hornnumb2 wrote:

I still have the 3/4 but wanted to go back to 1/2 ton...
The hard part is finding a used half with the max tow, max payload, max GVWR options. New can always be special ordered.

You are looking for a trailer with dry pin under 1200 pounds. Mine is 880.


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up

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