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BillyBob Jim

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Joined: 04/24/2019

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Posted: 05/24/19 05:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:



Make no mistake though, that seal by the door certifying the unit as conforming to NFPA 1192 or whichever standard it's built to is most certainly a legal requirement.


NFPA compliance is a voluntary requirement companies claim they meet. Having the RVIA seal is not mandatory. All that seal says is the manufacturer is a member of the RV Industry Association and claims they comply with NFPA, ANSI, whatever. Nothing says you have to be a member of RVIA to build and sell RVs. The RV Industry Association lobbies hard for minimum requirements. Why do you think most states have no lemon laws for towables. Bingo....the RVIA. A dead giveaway is RVbusiness.com which is sponsored by RVIA. They sugar coat and carefully select every article they have ever published, and are very good at turning a turd of an industry into a Rose.

There are no code inspectors on or at the end of the line in RV factories certifying anything meets anything else. If one feels good and safe because they have an RVIA seal that's what its designed to do, mission accomplished. Reality is slightly different when brakes quit working, the plumbing and LPG system has multiple leaks, and the wiring connections are never tightened..

dougrainer

Carrolton, Texas

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Posted: 05/24/19 05:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BillyBob Jim wrote:

JaxDad wrote:



Make no mistake though, that seal by the door certifying the unit as conforming to NFPA 1192 or whichever standard it's built to is most certainly a legal requirement.


NFPA compliance is a voluntary requirement companies claim they meet. Having the RVIA seal is not mandatory. All that seal says is the manufacturer is a member of the RV Industry Association and claims they comply with NFPA, ANSI, whatever. Nothing says you have to be a member of RVIA to build and sell RVs. The RV Industry Association lobbies hard for minimum requirements. Why do you think most states have no lemon laws for towables. Bingo....the RVIA. A dead giveaway is RVbusiness.com which is sponsored by RVIA. They sugar coat and carefully select every article they have ever published, and are very good at turning a turd of an industry into a Rose.

There are no code inspectors on or at the end of the line in RV factories certifying anything meets anything else. If one feels good and safe because they have an RVIA seal that's what its designed to do, mission accomplished. Reality is slightly different when brakes quit working, the plumbing and LPG system has multiple leaks, and the wiring connections are never tightened..


You can make all the nonsense claims you want. The fact is, YOU have no idea how RV's are really built. There IS a Final inspection and the plumbing is tested and LP is tested. The RVIA seal is not required, But, each seal must be paid for to the RVIA. The RVIA does inspect RVIA members to make sure the minimum standards are met. Do, things get missed? YES. But, EACH dealer is supposed to do a full PDI on every new unit sold and that includes Plumbing checks and LP Manometer test. IF dealers fail to do that, that puts them at liability if there is a LP leak they missed. There is no requirement that Dealers do these PDI's and tests, but a dealer is foolish to not do them. Sometimes that is the difference between that great low price and what other dealers are selling for. As to the "Yoder" brothers, 40 years ago that would be a true statement. In Michiana today the majority of RV line workers are NOT Mennonite or Amish. Doug

BillyBob Jim

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Posted: 05/24/19 06:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dougrainer wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:

JaxDad wrote:



Make no mistake though, that seal by the door certifying the unit as conforming to NFPA 1192 or whichever standard it's built to is most certainly a legal requirement.


NFPA compliance is a voluntary requirement companies claim they meet. Having the RVIA seal is not mandatory. All that seal says is the manufacturer is a member of the RV Industry Association and claims they comply with NFPA, ANSI, whatever. Nothing says you have to be a member of RVIA to build and sell RVs. The RV Industry Association lobbies hard for minimum requirements. Why do you think most states have no lemon laws for towables. Bingo....the RVIA. A dead giveaway is RVbusiness.com which is sponsored by RVIA. They sugar coat and carefully select every article they have ever published, and are very good at turning a turd of an industry into a Rose.

There are no code inspectors on or at the end of the line in RV factories certifying anything meets anything else. If one feels good and safe because they have an RVIA seal that's what its designed to do, mission accomplished. Reality is slightly different when brakes quit working, the plumbing and LPG system has multiple leaks, and the wiring connections are never tightened..


You can make all the nonsense claims you want. The fact is, YOU have no idea how RV's are really built. There IS a Final inspection and the plumbing is tested and LP is tested. The RVIA seal is not required, But, each seal must be paid for to the RVIA. The RVIA does inspect RVIA members to make sure the minimum standards are met. Do, things get missed? YES. But, EACH dealer is supposed to do a full PDI on every new unit sold and that includes Plumbing checks and LP Manometer test. IF dealers fail to do that, that puts them at liability if there is a LP leak they missed. There is no requirement that Dealers do these PDI's and tests, but a dealer is foolish to not do them. Sometimes that is the difference between that great low price and what other dealers are selling for. As to the "Yoder" brothers, 40 years ago that would be a true statement. In Michiana today the majority of RV line workers are NOT Mennonite or Amish. Doug



Ooooops forgot you are the all knowing swami where RVs are concerned.....I stand corrected. I assume all those gents with the bowl haircuts, beards, and homemade shirts and gals with the dresses and bonnets at the 5 or 6 factories I have been through around Goshen and Elkhart were Democrats. And your 100% correct, lots of things get missed. LOTS.

BillyBob Jim

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Posted: 05/24/19 06:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dougrainer wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:

JaxDad wrote:



Make no mistake though, that seal by the door certifying the unit as conforming to NFPA 1192 or whichever standard it's built to is most certainly a legal requirement.


NFPA compliance is a voluntary requirement companies claim they meet. Having the RVIA seal is not mandatory. All that seal says is the manufacturer is a member of the RV Industry Association and claims they comply with NFPA, ANSI, whatever. Nothing says you have to be a member of RVIA to build and sell RVs. The RV Industry Association lobbies hard for minimum requirements. Why do you think most states have no lemon laws for towables. Bingo....the RVIA. A dead giveaway is RVbusiness.com which is sponsored by RVIA. They sugar coat and carefully select every article they have ever published, and are very good at turning a turd of an industry into a Rose.

There are no code inspectors on or at the end of the line in RV factories certifying anything meets anything else. If one feels good and safe because they have an RVIA seal that's what its designed to do, mission accomplished. Reality is slightly different when brakes quit working, the plumbing and LPG system has multiple leaks, and the wiring connections are never tightened..


You can make all the nonsense claims you want. The fact is, YOU have no idea how RV's are really built. There IS a Final inspection and the plumbing is tested and LP is tested. The RVIA seal is not required, But, each seal must be paid for to the RVIA. The RVIA does inspect RVIA members to make sure the minimum standards are met. Do, things get missed? YES. But, EACH dealer is supposed to do a full PDI on every new unit sold and that includes Plumbing checks and LP Manometer test. IF dealers fail to do that, that puts them at liability if there is a LP leak they missed. There is no requirement that Dealers do these PDI's and tests, but a dealer is foolish to not do them. Sometimes that is the difference between that great low price and what other dealers are selling for. As to the "Yoder" brothers, 40 years ago that would be a true statement. In Michiana today the majority of RV line workers are NOT Mennonite or Amish. Doug



Ooooops forgot you are the all knowing swami where RVs are concerned.....I stand corrected. I assume all those gents with the bowl haircuts, beards, and homemade shirts and gals with the dresses and bonnets at the 5 or 6 factories I have been through around Goshen and Elkhart were Democrats. And your 100% correct, lots of things get missed. LOTS.

BB_TX

McKinney, Texas

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Posted: 05/24/19 07:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

......
- Good luck getting an engineer to sign and stamp plans that violate the NEC. We engineers tend to be a conservative lot and it's not fun explaining to a judge why you didn't follow industry practice.

Not to mention possibly losing their P.E. license.

cavie

Port Charlotte Fl/ Hindsdale MA

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Posted: 05/24/19 07:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OK Boys Play nice. We are just trying to teach the newbies not see who knows what.Just state your case with facts and leave it alone.


2011 Keystone Sprinter 323BHS. Retired Master Electrician. Retired Building Inspector.

All Motor Homes are RV's. All RV's are not Motor Homes.

RayJayco

Tampa

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Joined: 08/26/2009

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Posted: 05/24/19 08:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

RayJayco wrote:

An engineer (for a specific field) can override (in their specific field) a building inspector by signing off on it and accepting responsibility.


In theory except:
- You have to convince the inspector that the PE has that authority, if you want the final approval on your permit.
- A PE license in most states is not field specific, so in theory any PE can do this, though most sane PE's won't go outside their field. (also most states accept a PE from other states as it's largely been standardized across the country with just a few exceptions)
- Good luck getting an engineer to sign and stamp plans that violate the NEC. We engineers tend to be a conservative lot and it's not fun explaining to a judge why you didn't follow industry practice.


Thanks for the engineers perspective!

I saw it happen with a structural engineer some years back.
We are a GC, electrical and refrigeration company that does supermarkets, shopping centers and such. Not all inspectors or even plan reviewers are equal or even qualified to do their job. Some are completely clueless. I won't even start telling how many that I have had to explain stuff to.

Have a safe and happy Memorial Day!


Inquiring minds want to know...

RayJayco

Tampa

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Posted: 05/24/19 08:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BB_TX wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

......
- Good luck getting an engineer to sign and stamp plans that violate the NEC. We engineers tend to be a conservative lot and it's not fun explaining to a judge why you didn't follow industry practice.

Not to mention possibly losing their P.E. license.

Any licensed professional will protect their license. I know that I do.
No one can know everything and that includes officials. Right is right and when you are right, defend it!

Have a safe and happy Memorial Day!

valhalla360

No paticular place.

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Joined: 08/19/2009

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Posted: 05/24/19 10:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RayJayco wrote:

Right is right and when you are right, defend it!



Unless you give me a darn good reason, I'm sticking with industry standard. I'm not bothering to defend anything.


Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2008 Copper Canyon 5er
Catalac Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and 5er


JaxDad

Greater Toronto Area

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Joined: 08/02/2011

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Good Sam RV Club Member

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Posted: 05/24/19 11:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BillyBob Jim wrote:

JaxDad wrote:



Make no mistake though, that seal by the door certifying the unit as conforming to NFPA 1192 or whichever standard it's built to is most certainly a legal requirement.


NFPA compliance is a voluntary requirement companies claim they meet. Having the RVIA seal is not mandatory. All that seal says is the manufacturer is a member of the RV Industry Association and claims they comply with NFPA, ANSI, whatever. Nothing says you have to be a member of RVIA to build and sell RVs. The RV Industry Association lobbies hard for minimum requirements. Why do you think most states have no lemon laws for towables. Bingo....the RVIA. A dead giveaway is RVbusiness.com which is sponsored by RVIA. They sugar coat and carefully select every article they have ever published, and are very good at turning a turd of an industry into a Rose.

There are no code inspectors on or at the end of the line in RV factories certifying anything meets anything else. If one feels good and safe because they have an RVIA seal that's what its designed to do, mission accomplished. Reality is slightly different when brakes quit working, the plumbing and LPG system has multiple leaks, and the wiring connections are never tightened..



Well, it's voluntary to the point where it's legally required. LOL.



As an example, in Texas the Transportation Code makes it illegal to tow a trailer on any public road if it has a built in propane system unless it meets NFPA 1192 standards and bears proof of same.



In California the Health and Safety Code - HSC Div 13, PART 2 , CHAPTER 4, Section 18027.3.

"h) It is unlawful for any person to do either of the following:
(2) Alter or convert, or cause to be altered or converted, any recreational vehicle in a manner that is inconsistent with ANSI Standard No. A119.2 or A119.5 or the NFPA 1192 Standard on Recreational Vehicles when the recreational vehicle is used, occupied, sold, or offered for sale within this state."

In California's Statutes, at 18871.5 states;

"(b) A recreational vehicle that does not bear a label, an insignia, or an insignia of approval, as required by subdivision (f) or (g) of Section 18027.3, may not occupy any lot in a park unless the vehicle owner provides reasonable proof of compliance with ANSI Standard No. A119.2 or A119.5 depending upon whether it is a recreational vehicle or park trailer....." (NB: ANSI 119.2 is the same as NFPA 1192)



In the case of Oregon it is incorporated into the Building Codes Division - Chapter 918 says at 918-525-0040;

"(1) The minimum safety standards for recreational vehicles are adopted pursuant to OAR chapter 918, division 8.

(2) Effective January 19, 2017, the following standards are adopted by reference as the standards for the manufacture of recreational vehicles:

(a) The 2015 Edition of NFPA 1192, Standard on Recreational Vehicles, as published by the National Fire Protection Association.

(b) The 2014 Edition of NFPA 70, National Electrical Code, specifically but not limited to, Article 551 pertaining to Recreational Vehicles, as published by the National Fire Protection Association.

(c) The 2014 Edition of ANSI/RVIA Standard for Low Voltage Systems in Conversion and Recreational Vehicles, as published by the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association."




So yes, it's LAW, of course you could just consider it as 'voluntary' and get sued or charged I guess.

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