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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Why 4.1 axle?

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JRscooby

Indepmo

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Posted: 06/17/19 08:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:


If you tow within the manufacturer's ratings, you shouldn't have an issue blowing apart the diff due to overloading.


Yes, true dat. But if you do a little research on picking the equipment you want to do the job you will see that higher speed rearend will reduce the manufacturer's rating.

valhalla360

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Posted: 06/17/19 11:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


If you tow within the manufacturer's ratings, you shouldn't have an issue blowing apart the diff due to overloading.


Yes, true dat. But if you do a little research on picking the equipment you want to do the job you will see that higher speed rearend will reduce the manufacturer's rating.


If you plan to tow over the ratings...the manufacturer is going to point to the ratings and tell you it's your problem.

I think the basic assumption we have to work from is you aren't exceeding the truck ratings. Of course, if you look at my first post, needing a higher rating is one of the reasons to consider a different rear end...about the only good reason with modern trucks.


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Posted: 06/17/19 12:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Gear ratio is always a compromise. For best mileage you want the overall ratio (Trans, rearend and tire diameter) to keep engine RPM at most efficient point at the normal road speed. And because you loose more to friction when you turn the output faster than input, ideally if the rear ratio did all the reduction and top gear was direct you should be best. But that high speed rearend would strain the housing, driveshaft, transmission, clutch, motor-mounts, frame when starting the load. Remember, at take off, peak HP, peak torque don't matter, it is the torque just above idle that matters.
To gain the extra strength the rest of the vehicle would need to be built heavier, need more fuel to move the extra weight.

Back about '75 my parents bought a new TT. After the first trip Mother called me crying, the I6 in the '69 Econoline would not pull it, they could not buy a new TV. I don't remember what the original ratio was, (near 4:1) but I changed the ring and pinion to a 4.88s. (And replaced the clutch that had smoked) That was enough of a change to let them camp for a few years. Dad said he lost some mileage on the highway but it did not change in town.


If you tow within the manufacturer's ratings, you shouldn't have an issue blowing apart the diff due to overloading.
That is not what he said


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Posted: 06/17/19 04:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

twodownzero wrote:

Why lower rear axle gears? Because you have more wheel torque in every gear



A fact which means next to nothing because lower speed axle gears do not put more torque to the rear axle at every speed. Lower gears help to get you rolling but they're not necessarily a better choice for towing if you do t need them. Kind of like a dually is only better if you need it.


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Posted: 06/17/19 10:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OK skip to 16:10 and the F150 is in 5th gear out of 10 going down the highway. I think I hear it go to 6th very shortly. Just saying it would bug me to use less than 8 out of 10 gears when towing. 4.10+ is what gets you there.

TFLT comparing F150


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Posted: 06/18/19 12:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

OK skip to 16:10 and the F150 is in 5th gear out of 10 going down the highway. I think I hear it go to 6th very shortly. Just saying it would bug me to use less than 8 out of 10 gears when towing. 4.10+ is what gets you there.

TFLT comparing F150


The whole point of having 10 speeds is so you can use "less than 10" when towing heavy, and save the others for economical cruising.

A loaded semi may climb a grade in 9th or 10th, does that mean it's using less than 18 gears? Many modern semis use 2.xx rear ends for the exact same reason.

In the old days of 3 or 4 spd automatics, you have no choice but to choose 4.10/4.56s for towing, or 3.55 for cruising, and compromise every other situation. An 8 speed or 10 speed with 3.55s have a lower 1st overall gear ratio than a 4 speed 4L80/48RE/4R100 with 4.56.

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Posted: 06/18/19 05:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


If you tow within the manufacturer's ratings, you shouldn't have an issue blowing apart the diff due to overloading.


Yes, true dat. But if you do a little research on picking the equipment you want to do the job you will see that higher speed rearend will reduce the manufacturer's rating.


If you plan to tow over the ratings...the manufacturer is going to point to the ratings and tell you it's your problem.

I think the basic assumption we have to work from is you aren't exceeding the truck ratings. Of course, if you look at my first post, needing a higher rating is one of the reasons to consider a different rear end...about the only good reason with modern trucks.


Are we discussing why somebody would pick a given rear ratio, in this case 4.1 to 1, right? I don't have much experience with light duty stuff like what RVs use. What I have done is decide how much weight I need to move to make it pay, then try put the gears and axles under the frame to get the job done. If you got 50,000 lbs on your back, and the customer says "Take it across that bean field, dump at the tree line" You are going to grab a double handful of seat with both hands on the wheel. If you thought the 4.1s could save you fuel over the 4.44s you start counting how many gallons you could buy for the cost of the power divider. That old Pete with the 1693 Cat, 2 stick 5X4, and 5.56 was the best I ever had for that kind of work, but hard to feed on a lot of other jobs...

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Posted: 06/18/19 06:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A little info. Those multi speed transmissions rarely if ever will use the higher gears. The majority of the time on an 8speed trans you will
Rarely if ever use 7 and 8. Same goes for the 10 speeds. 8,9 and 10 are for very high speeds!


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Posted: 06/18/19 08:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

time2roll wrote:

OK skip to 16:10 and the F150 is in 5th gear out of 10 going down the highway. I think I hear it go to 6th very shortly. Just saying it would bug me to use less than 8 out of 10 gears when towing. 4.10+ is what gets you there.

TFLT comparing F150


The whole point of having 10 speeds is so you can use "less than 10" when towing heavy, and save the others for economical cruising.

A loaded semi may climb a grade in 9th or 10th, does that mean it's using less than 18 gears? Many modern semis use 2.xx rear ends for the exact same reason.

In the old days of 3 or 4 spd automatics, you have no choice but to choose 4.10/4.56s for towing, or 3.55 for cruising, and compromise every other situation. An 8 speed or 10 speed with 3.55s have a lower 1st overall gear ratio than a 4 speed 4L80/48RE/4R100 with 4.56.
The comment of being in 5th was on a relatively flat road. 3,4,5 for climbing is fine. Note the trailer is a wedge front lower profile horse trailer. Frontal area of an RV trailer would be an even lower gear. Just saying I would be in a 4.10 if available.

mich800

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Posted: 06/18/19 09:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

time2roll wrote:

OK skip to 16:10 and the F150 is in 5th gear out of 10 going down the highway. I think I hear it go to 6th very shortly. Just saying it would bug me to use less than 8 out of 10 gears when towing. 4.10+ is what gets you there.

TFLT comparing F150


The whole point of having 10 speeds is so you can use "less than 10" when towing heavy, and save the others for economical cruising.

A loaded semi may climb a grade in 9th or 10th, does that mean it's using less than 18 gears? Many modern semis use 2.xx rear ends for the exact same reason.

In the old days of 3 or 4 spd automatics, you have no choice but to choose 4.10/4.56s for towing, or 3.55 for cruising, and compromise every other situation. An 8 speed or 10 speed with 3.55s have a lower 1st overall gear ratio than a 4 speed 4L80/48RE/4R100 with 4.56.
The comment of being in 5th was on a relatively flat road. 3,4,5 for climbing is fine. Note the trailer is a wedge front lower profile horse trailer. Frontal area of an RV trailer would be an even lower gear. Just saying I would be in a 4.10 if available.


Like said before. The higher gears are high speed mpg gears. The 10 speed is still far better for towing if you look at the ratios compared with the 6 speed.

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