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Open Roads Forum  >  Fifth-Wheels

 > Greetings and weight question

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BigDinAZ

Arizona

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Greetings, Don here from Southeast AZ. We are looking to get a FW, but have no real rush because we want to research, and pick the best rig for us.
We just purchased our new 2018 Ram 2500 Laramie. 6.7 Cummins and a 3:73 rear end. I pulled the vin up on Ram towing guide and it says 17,100 LBS Max towing.
The GVWR is 10,000 lbs and rear axle Max is 6,000.
I understand the dry weight and GVWR weight as well as pin weight. So here is my question.
IF I get a trailer that has a GVWR of 16K lbs, and a pin weight under or at 2k lbs I should be okay right?
In other words the 16K LBS GVWR is under the 17,100 Max towing, and the pin weight of 2k lbs is under the 6K Max axle capacity. Am I correct in my thinking?

I want to make sure I am researching the right FW and weights BEFORE really looking.

Thanks in advance.
Don.

* This post was edited 06/14/19 08:16pm by BigDinAZ *


Don
Ram 2500 Laramie 6.7 Cummins

jkwilson

Indiana

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

No, the axle rating and pin weight aren’t directly related. Axle weight comes from the pin weight, but it includes the truck weight and weight distribution affects it. Payload is what determines the pin weight you can handle. You take the payload number and subtract the weight of everything you add to the truck including passengers, fuels etc. and what you have left is available payload.

Are you sure your 3500 only has 10,000lb GVWR? Your numbers look more like a 2500.


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BigDinAZ

Arizona

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jkwilson wrote:

No, the axle rating and pin weight aren’t directly related. Axle weight comes from the pin weight, but it includes the truck weight and weight distribution affects it. Payload is what determines the pin weight you can handle. You take the payload number and subtract the weight of everything you add to the truck including passengers, fuels etc. and what you have left is available payload.

Are you sure your 3500 only has 10,000lb GVWR? Your numbers look more like a 2500.


Okay so first I edited the post because I was on the phone and made a fat finger. It's a 2500 NOT 3500.

Thanks!

BigDinAZ

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jkwilson wrote:

No, the axle rating and pin weight aren’t directly related. Axle weight comes from the pin weight, but it includes the truck weight and weight distribution affects it. Payload is what determines the pin weight you can handle. You take the payload number and subtract the weight of everything you add to the truck including passengers, fuels etc. and what you have left is available payload.

Are you sure your 3500 only has 10,000lb GVWR? Your numbers look more like a 2500.


Okay, so Max Payload Minus wife and I (354 lbs), minus Fuel, and anything else is what the pin weight can not exceed.
So for instance if I have GVWR of 10k, and everything I put in the truck is 2klbs, that means I can have up to 8k LBS pin weight?

MackinawMan

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BigDinAZ wrote:

jkwilson wrote:

No, the axle rating and pin weight aren’t directly related. Axle weight comes from the pin weight, but it includes the truck weight and weight distribution affects it. Payload is what determines the pin weight you can handle. You take the payload number and subtract the weight of everything you add to the truck including passengers, fuels etc. and what you have left is available payload.

Are you sure your 3500 only has 10,000lb GVWR? Your numbers look more like a 2500.


Okay, so Max Payload Minus wife and I (354 lbs), minus Fuel, and anything else is what the pin weight can not exceed.
So for instance if I have GVWR of 10k, and everything I put in the truck is 2klbs, that means I can have up to 8k LBS pin weight?


Unless I'm missing something, and I may since I've always towed travel trailers, but you have to include the actual weight of the truck itself.

For example:

GVWR = 10,000 lbs.

Actual weight of truck including EVERYTHING loaded inside, fuel, people, etc, = 7000 lbs. (just making up a number)

10000 - 7000 = 3000 lbs. of cargo carrying capacity.

So, as long as your pinweight is less than 3000 lbs, you would be fine in that regards.


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Artum Snowbird

Campbell River, B.C., Canada

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Honest Don, if it was that easy that would be nice. You are going to have to weigh your truck with everything you put in it, kids, pets, tools, fully loaded with fuel, then see how much real axle weight you are at, and that will determine how much more you can put onto the real axle.

There truly is good reasons why 3/4 ton trucks are great towing machines for trailers, but the pin weight of a big fifth wheel can eat up that axle capacity fast.

First step, get it weighed on a good scale. Really see what you have left.

Your real axle capacity is not the available left from your GVW, it's your tire carrying capacity. Look at the max weight on the rear tires. Fifth wheels carry 100 percent of their pin weight on the back tires. Campers do not. Trailers with equalizers do not either.

Edit again... if your tires are stock, they are rated at 2337 pounds each for 245/70 r 17. Double that to find your real axle capacity.

* This post was edited 06/14/19 08:44pm by Artum Snowbird *


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Cummins12V98

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Not to pop your bubble but your truck has 3.42’s NOT 3.73’s unless someone changed them.

You should have researched the truck before buying anything. A 12k 5er LOADED is a good rig for your truck.

Sure your truck will TOW IT but it won’t CARRY IT !!!


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MikeRP

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Posted: 06/14/19 08:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ok

You just bought a great truck. Problem is, it’s a 2500 which has an artificially low payload. There’s been fight after fight on these forums on numbers. The same truck I have is a 3500 with a payload of 3800 lbs and there is only a small difference.

So I’m my opinion look for a fifth wheel, dry weight, around 12500 lbs and a pin weight around 2100 lbs. GVWR will be around 16000 lbs. You will exceed the weight ratings on payload by a lot but not the tire ratings. Your tires will be good for around 7200 lbs. but loaded you will be around 6300 lbs maybe less.

If you watch your loading the camper will weigh out around 14500 and that will give you 2700-2800 lbs on the pin.

If she feels a little shaky in the rear with those springs there are several options to stiffen the ride. Don’t exceed the tires ratings

Hook er and go.

Lwiddis

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Posted: 06/14/19 09:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

“I understand the dry weight and GVWR weight as well as pin weight.” No, you don’t.

“that means I can have up to 8k LBS pin weight?” Eight thousand pounds of pin weight carried by a Ram 2500? No way.


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Lantley

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Posted: 06/14/19 10:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MikeRP wrote:

Ok

You just bought a great truck. Problem is, it’s a 2500 which has an artificially low payload. There’s been fight after fight on these forums on numbers. The same truck I have is a 3500 with a payload of 3800 lbs and there is only a small difference.

So I’m my opinion look for a fifth wheel, dry weight, around 12500 lbs and a pin weight around 2100 lbs. GVWR will be around 16000 lbs. You will exceed the weight ratings on payload by a lot but not the tire ratings. Your tires will be good for around 7200 lbs. but loaded you will be around 6300 lbs maybe less.

If you watch your loading the camper will weigh out around 14500 and that will give you 2700-2800 lbs on the pin.

If she feels a little shaky in the rear with those springs there are several options to stiffen the ride. Don’t exceed the tires ratings

Hook er and go.


A 16K GVW is a bit much for a 3/4 ton truck.
Researching after buying increases the risk of having the wrong truck.
Unfortunately many end up trading or compromising in order to get it right the 2nd time.It's always cheaper to get it right the first time.


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