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 > Change to Lithium-ion?

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time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 06/27/19 10:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

road-runner wrote:

I think the WFCO bashing has gone too far. They have an undeserved bad reputation because they are rarely installed correctly, and a very deserved bad reputation from a horrible reliability history that can be traced to poor physical layout of the components. When sized correctly for the battery bank and connected to the batteries with wires that aren't pathetically undersized, the WFCO loaded sensing technique for SOC is more accurate than the no-load voltage sensing of the competitors, and the current-based fan operation anticipates the cooling need instead of reacting to it. The WFCO converters I've had supply their full rated output with marginal AC input, while the PD converters I've had taper their output if the waveform and voltage aren't right at the upper end of the specs.

If they'd fix the reliability issue and emphasize correct installation I think the WFCO converters would be the pick of the litter among the mainstream power converters.
OK say you had a 35 amp WFCO connected to 4x GC2 with 20' of #2 wire... Should that work?
How low does the battery need to be? 12.0 volts?
Mine still does not work.

OK at some point they do work because if I slam the low battery with my inverter and 150 amp load for 20 seconds the WFCO actually goes to charging at 14.4 volts.

No need to talk about twice getting stuck 12+ hours in boost mode at random after being plugged in a few days. Or not dropping to float after a week.

As if I was the only one... Not.


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2oldman

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Posted: 06/27/19 10:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Relion 48v 100ah. I'd post a link but on the phone it's difficult. I can post an exact number later.

2oldman

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Posted: 06/27/19 10:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MrWizard wrote:


Then it would be 1/4 of that for a 12v drop in battery
actually it's 4 times that of a 12v battery.

2oldman

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Posted: 06/27/19 10:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

larkyblast wrote:

Those chinese batteries sure look interesting.
Interesting is a good word. I don't know what the cable size is, and I guess you have to install your own connectors.

road-runner

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Posted: 06/27/19 11:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

OK say you had a 35 amp WFCO connected to 4x GC2 with 20' of #2 wire... Should that work?
How low does the battery need to be? 12.0 volts?
Mine still does not work.

OK at some point they do work because if I slam the low battery with my inverter and 150 amp load for 20 seconds the WFCO actually goes to charging at 14.4 volts.

No need to talk about twice getting stuck 12+ hours in boost mode at random after being plugged in a few days. Or not dropping to float after a week.

As if I was the only one... Not.

The WFCO converters I have run at 13.6 volts output when powered up, then switch to boost mode if the 13.6 gets pulled down to 13.2. (I can only speak for the units I've measured because there's no published spec for this). I'm assuming 2 #2 conductors, 20 feet long, for a total of 40'. Crunching the numbers, that's a 0.22 volt drop at 35 amps. That's pretty huge compared to the 0.4 volts drop required at the converter output, but answering how low the battery would have to be, it would be 12.98 volts (assuming no further losses in the connections).

All the praise I heap on the WFCO converters is with the design. Without the reliability problems fixed, most of them are boat anchors, bricks, etc. I use one as a standalone battery charger, which it is great for, and 2 others sit on the shelf next to my PD converter.

Regarding the converters in general, lack of temp compensation was mentioned, and for some, power factor correction is a big issue. The Xantrex Truecharge 2 has both of these features, you just have to be willing to pay twice the price of the mainstream RV converters, and of course hope that they are reliable and work correctly.


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MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 06/27/19 12:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

HORSE

PUCKY

I've gone through more WFCO's than most people see.

I've soldered 4AWG directly to the circuit board and connected them to good flooded and AGM batteries and drawn the batteries down to TEN VOLTS via a carbon pile load tester. The WFCO's (note the apostrophe's followed by the letter S)

Immediately rebounded to Thirteen Point Six Volts.

Battery Destroyer for a battery that is cycled. A so-so maintainer that is connected to a power pole princess from day one.

People who do not understand thermodynamics enough to see the advantage of using multiple cooling fins instead of a solid block of aluminum need to switch occupations to the one that has them hanging onto a broom. All the hot stuff at one end, the fan at the other, with transformers and capacitors in between blocking air flow is sooooo telling. The chatter inside the WFCO management ------ is not about the charger, try "Have you wrapped up the 'Smudgly Account'"?

Too many times around the block to get BS'ed

steveh27

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Posted: 06/27/19 01:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2oldman wrote:

larkyblast wrote:

Those chinese batteries sure look interesting.
Interesting is a good word. I don't know what the cable size is, and I guess you have to install your own connectors.



They're including 2 terminals with 4 connections each. Also sent a wiring diagram.

I'll post how the hookup goes when I get it.

2oldman

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Posted: 06/27/19 02:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Please include the cable size.. thanks.

I sincerely hope these work for you.. but at that price, and from China, and the way they're cabled, 50a maximum output, and no warranty, you'll forgive me for being a bit skeptical.

Did you see the shipping cost? You're really not saving much from a domestic purchase.

* This post was edited 06/27/19 02:18pm by 2oldman *

2oldman

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Posted: 06/27/19 02:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RCMAN46 wrote:



What batteries are used in your 48v pack. I mean manufacture and type or part number.


my battery.

RCMAN46

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Posted: 06/27/19 02:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MrWizard wrote:

2oldman

How much of a voltage drop from full to 50% SOC
Then it would be 1/4 of that for a 12v drop in battery


For a discharge of a LIFE04 from 20 percent to 80 percent the voltage drop is about 0.15 volts for one cell thus a 4 cell 12 volt battery will have a 0.60 volts.

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