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Groover

Pulaski, TN

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Posted: 07/02/19 02:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bigfoot affair wrote:

12th Man Fan wrote:

Well maybe the truck builders are finally listening to the RV crowd for a change:

Just got a brochure on the 2020 GMC HD trucks.

1. They have finally made the bed rails lower

2. They have a bed camera to see your 5th wheel hitch.

3. 10 speed Allison

4. All types of options for camera views with trailer

I know, it all costs money but at least it is avaliable. I may be in the market for a new one.


I read somewhere that Ford is lowering their dually too. Maybe it is a new trend. With the number of trucks sold to pull fifth wheel trailers I am surprised that they haven't developed a special bed with the rails just over the wheel humps so that the front of the trailer can be lower.

Yes. I was happy to see that they lowered the bed rails too, until I looked over the specs. They only came down .100" from the previous model.


Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

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Posted: 07/02/19 03:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Gooseneck hitch behind rear axle centerline. How stupid.


Yeah it must be waaaay back there to only be rated to tow 35k!

Lofl. Some people would bitsch and complain if you hit em upside the head with a bag of money...
.

Industry standard has been in front of axle for ever. Dumb to unload front axle.


The effect of loading/unloading the front axle varies with how far you are from the axle. We are talking 3 or 4 inches here vs maybe 50 or more with a bumper pull and most new trucks are rated to carry some astonishing weights on the bumper. You probably won't notice the small change here. However, with the trend towards short bed pickups smacking the back of the cab has become a real issue. A few inches backwards will make a huge difference on that. I hope that doesn't sound too much like a certain politician.
I think the video said it was 2"


Huntindog
100% boondocking
2010 Palomino Sabre 30 BHDS
84 gal. Grey. 84 gal. Black
2 bathrooms, no waiting
2011 Silverado CC DA big dually.



Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

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Posted: 07/02/19 04:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

" If Ram had access to a 10 speed they would have one in their pickups right now."
Eggzactly! Except the blind fanboys will tell you how 6 cogs is better than 10 because.....
Waiting for Ram to get the 8 speed ZF powerline trans. That should level that playing field.




Have I criticized GM because they would not admit the strength of their 6 speed was not op to the task and gave a LAME excuse of why their DRW could only pull 23,700#? HE!! yea!
You like to state that a lot.... It shows a lack of understanding ot the effect a lower rear axle ratio can have.
A 4.10 gear in place of the 3.73 would allow it to tow more weight without any more stress on the tranny... So why did GM not do it?

I was told by a long time GM engineer years ago, that when they tried 4.10s behind the D/A that the pinion would not hold up.

At the time I did not give this much thought.
Having some experience with setting up ring and pinions, I KNOW that as you go to lower ratios, the Pinion contact area becomes smaller and weaker... This is a fact.

So if one takes a look at what GM did to increase the tow rating, it is enlightening.
They increased the size of the ring and pinion, AND installed taller gears. This has the effect of making the rearend gears MUCH stronger. The 10 speed tranny allowed them to do this as the necessary torque multiplication can now take place in the tranny, not the rearend.

So why were Ford and Ram able to just swap in lower gears in the pumpkin, raise the tow rating, and call it good?

Probably because the Dmax which was the ONLY one to dyno according to demanding SAE protacols actually put out more power, than their competiters (despite their higher "advertised" ratings).

As for the test results.... First off there is the speed limit of 60MPH, Then there is the fact that they went by the speedometers to determine this.. One truck said it was 7.9 miles, the other 8.1, so there is some error there. Small but important in this test.
Both trucks easily were able to move 16K up the hill. So with the speed limit, the speedometer error, and the ease that both trucks were able to handle that weight, it just isn't possible for one truck to beat the other by a large margin.

Increase the speed, or weight, or both.... And the test would be more demanding, and I think a clear winner would be obvious



Lessmore

Canada

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Posted: 07/02/19 05:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

12th Man Fan wrote:


3. 10 speed Allison


3. GM 10 speed re-branded as an Allison.

Fixed that for you.

And Gig'em Aggies.


Aren't the GM and Ford 10 speed transmissions very similar...believe both companies shared R+D on that.

gmcsmoke

Butler

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Posted: 07/02/19 05:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Uuhhh the bed depth is still 21" same as previous years

Bionic Man

Colorado

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Posted: 07/02/19 05:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lessmore wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

12th Man Fan wrote:


3. 10 speed Allison


3. GM 10 speed re-branded as an Allison.

Fixed that for you.

And Gig'em Aggies.


Aren't the GM and Ford 10 speed transmissions very similar...believe both companies shared R+D on that.


That’s on the lighter duty transmissions. Shared between the two - the F150 uses it along with the F body GM cars.

This one is different.


2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/02/19 07:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

""LEVEL" the playing field? Not sure it did much for the GM as it should have handed the RAM it's lunch on the recent IKE run"

Consider this.
Ram, 1000ftlbs and puts almost the same hp to the wheels as a L5P despite being down some 40hp. 4.10 gears. 6 speeds
GM, almost 100 ftlbs shy of the Ram at 910 and saddled with 3.42 finals. 10 speeds

In general, the additional gear splits should have helped the GM make up for less torque and higher final gear ratio.
That's what I meant by leveling.


Let’s not forget 700# lighter and 50% less tire drag.


2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/02/19 07:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:


Have I criticized GM because they would not admit the strength of their 6 speed was not op to the task and gave a LAME excuse of why their DRW could only pull 23,700#? HE!! yea!


And you will not admit that the Aisin is a slow and clunky transmission even though multiple review sites and people in the forums has stated this so what's the difference?

I would rather take a 6-speed Allison over an Aisin. Big whoop that it is only rated to tow up to 23k. Most people here, myself included, will never tow close to that much and would probably rather have a better shifting transmission with better shift points rated to tow up to 23k over a slow and clunky trans rated to tow 30k.


How bout this. Come drive mine at 10k solo and then at 35k double towing. Then tell me what you think.

What trans do you have? Oh yea NOT AN AISIN.

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/02/19 07:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Gooseneck hitch behind rear axle centerline. How stupid.


Yeah it must be waaaay back there to only be rated to tow 35k!

Lofl. Some people would bitsch and complain if you hit em upside the head with a bag of money...
.

Industry standard has been in front of axle for ever. Dumb to unload front axle.


The effect of loading/unloading the front axle varies with how far you are from the axle. We are talking 3 or 4 inches here vs maybe 50 or more with a bumper pull and most new trucks are rated to carry some astonishing weights on the bumper. You probably won't notice the small change here. However, with the trend towards short bed pickups smacking the back of the cab has become a real issue. A few inches backwards will make a huge difference on that. I hope that doesn't sound too much like a certain politician.


Sounds like compensating for those that have to compromise. [emoticon]

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/02/19 08:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ya know guys this is great we can banter back and forth an so far the thread is still open.

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