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Open Roads Forum  >  Public Lands, Boondocking and Dry Camping

 > Sad state of our National Parks-II

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BillyBob Jim

US

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Joined: 04/24/2019

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Posted: 08/07/19 12:01pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westernrvparkowner wrote:


I cannot say with any certainty that the US acting as world policeman is a great idea, but 80 years ago the collective world though it was a great idea to practice "mind our own business" and we ended up with Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan. A similiar outcome with the added threat of nuclear weapons is a world no one shoul even contemplate.


And there you have it, Let's Nuke the National Parks. It would be cost effective so no taxes would need raised as you don't have to shoot far to take out Yellowstone, Glacier, and a few others. They can blame Trump and say he launched them from his Iphone LOL.


[image]

Almost forgot.........Wait for it..........................Again, this is not political.

* This post was edited 08/07/19 12:14pm by BillyBob Jim *

westernrvparkowner

montana

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Posted: 08/07/19 01:39pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Some very interesting concepts. However, you need to define Tax loophole to begin with. Items like mortgage interest deductions, earned income credits, charitable deductions, solar car rebates etc. Are all "loopholes" under many definitions. They won't go away easily, just look at the uproar over limiting, not eliminating, state and local property tax deductions. Even if you can actually get that 1.4 trillion dollars in actual tax revenues, spending it on those programs you named would still leaves the US with a trillion dollar annual deficits. Eventually something will have to give.
I cannot say with any certainty that the US acting as world policeman is a great idea, but 80 years ago the collective world though it was a great idea to practice "mind our own business" and we ended up with Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan. A similiar outcome with the added threat of nuclear weapons is a world no one shoul even contemplate.


No one is advocating an abrupt implementation. Are you kidding me, my bottom line will hurt too if this happens, lol.

But joking aside, Trump's deficit is $1 trillion. So conceptually eliminating the $1.4 trillion will erase the deficit with left over for debt pay down and better healthcare.

I was specific on the Gulf Straight where because of our so-called oil sufficiency makes it unnecessary for us to be patrolling it. China is still a threat but we should patrol the China and Philippine sea with other Asian countries, Australia and European countries who are having brisk business in the region. Again, conceptually and in practicality.
Just a point of clarification, the budget, the deficit, and anything else regarding spending does not solely lie at the foot of any president. Constitutionally, spending is tasked to the congress. There is more than enough blame to spread around the entire legislative and executive branches of government when it comes to spending. Personally, calling what we have now "Budgeting" is an insult to anyone outside of government who has ever prepared, lived or operated under a true budget.

JRscooby

Indepmo

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Posted: 08/07/19 01:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westernrvparkowner wrote:



I cannot say with any certainty that the US acting as world policeman is a great idea, but 80 years ago the collective world though it was a great idea to practice "mind our own business" and we ended up with Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan. A similiar outcome with the added threat of nuclear weapons is a world no one shoul even contemplate.


You might want to think about you history. Look at what military spending levels '39 compared to total worldwide military spending. Then look then and now, who is trying to dictate what the rest of the world wants to do. Better drop this line of talk.

BTW, somebody mentioned humanitarian aid. A while back a ebola outbreak someplace in Africa. Evening news, bragging US sending 3,000 Marines. Later BBC was thanking Cuba for sending 3000 Doctors...

westernrvparkowner

montana

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Posted: 08/07/19 01:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

It looks like I missed some posts while thinking or typing. I don't do either very fast, but try to do the first first.


tomman58 wrote:

This thread is so far off base it needs to end. All those self righteous schemers and dreamers need to go to their homeboy sites and rant there.


Politics is not discussed in polite.... can't be discussed politely deal. If you never listen or talk to anybody that does not agree with you how can you defend your ideas? Michael Moore says is no better than Rush says, but if you can't hear both without being offended by either I hope for the sake of country you or somebody educates your kids better. Apathy is bad enough.


BillyBob Jim wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

They quickly learn that not working and becoming receivers of benefits is the smart move.


You have millions upon millions of moochers who learned the above long ago, generations of them actually. Welfare, Disability, SSI, etc. Fraud runs rampant in those programs. It did not take Socialism nor this "this is not political" thread to get us down that road.


Is there fraud in the welfare system? Sure. Disability system? Just as sure. But what percentage of the dollars spent on these systems lost do to fraud? 10%? 20%? I have no idea, just trumping up numbers. Now lets look at DOD, and assume the same percentage of fraud. Betting the % would be higher at DOD, just because the defence contractor is likely to be closer in education level to a banked than somebody collecting welfare, and bankers have beat me out of more money than homeless.
While back, there was talk about a warplane the Air Force didn't need, Army, Navy, and Marines did not want, but congress voted to buy it anyway. Bet those millions could of improved a few parks...
How has a bank beaten you, personally, out of a single dollar? If you make a mistake and overdraw your checking account you may very well run up significant fees, but that isn't the bank beating you, that is you beating you. Same thing with credit card fees and interest, nobody forces people to have credit cards and the terms and fees are disclosed before any are incurred. Just because you are like most of us and don't put in the time to learn and understand the terms, the reponsibility doesn't shift off you to the bank. The banks don't beat people out of money, the people beat themselves out of it.

Yosemite Sam1

Under the pines.

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Posted: 08/07/19 02:06pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Some very interesting concepts. However, you need to define Tax loophole to begin with. Items like mortgage interest deductions, earned income credits, charitable deductions, solar car rebates etc. Are all "loopholes" under many definitions. They won't go away easily, just look at the uproar over limiting, not eliminating, state and local property tax deductions. Even if you can actually get that 1.4 trillion dollars in actual tax revenues, spending it on those programs you named would still leaves the US with a trillion dollar annual deficits. Eventually something will have to give.
I cannot say with any certainty that the US acting as world policeman is a great idea, but 80 years ago the collective world though it was a great idea to practice "mind our own business" and we ended up with Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan. A similiar outcome with the added threat of nuclear weapons is a world no one shoul even contemplate.


No one is advocating an abrupt implementation. Are you kidding me, my bottom line will hurt too if this happens, lol.

But joking aside, Trump's deficit is $1 trillion. So conceptually eliminating the $1.4 trillion will erase the deficit with left over for debt pay down and better healthcare.

I was specific on the Gulf Straight where because of our so-called oil sufficiency makes it unnecessary for us to be patrolling it. China is still a threat but we should patrol the China and Philippine sea with other Asian countries, Australia and European countries who are having brisk business in the region. Again, conceptually and in practicality.
Just a point of clarification, the budget, the deficit, and anything else regarding spending does not solely lie at the foot of any president. Constitutionally, spending is tasked to the congress. There is more than enough blame to spread around the entire legislative and executive branches of government when it comes to spending. Personally, calling what we have now "Budgeting" is an insult to anyone outside of government who has ever prepared, lived or operated under a true budget.


Except that the budget is the economic blueprint and fiscal management program of the current administration.

The Executive proposes, Congress disposes (in default unless it wants to paralyze the government with a shutdown).

The cause of the $1 trillion deficit is largely caused by the current administration and his party's new tax laws and tax cuts (Trickle down or Reaganomics on steroids Part III).

JRscooby

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Posted: 08/07/19 02:31pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westernrvparkowner wrote:



I cannot say with any certainty that the US acting as world policeman is a great idea, but 80 years ago the collective world though it was a great idea to practice "mind our own business" and we ended up with Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan. A similiar outcome with the added threat of nuclear weapons is a world no one shoul even contemplate.


You might want to think about you history. Look at what military spending levels '39 compared to total worldwide military spending. Then look then and now, who is trying to dictate what the rest of the world wants to do. Better drop this line of talk.

BTW, somebody mentioned humanitarian aid. A while back a ebola outbreak someplace in Africa. Evening news, bragging US sending 3,000 Marines. Later BBC was thanking Cuba for sending 3000 Doctors...

JRscooby

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Posted: 08/07/19 03:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

westernrvparkowner wrote:


How has a bank beaten you, personally, out of a single dollar?


The answer to this question is way off topic for the thread, and likely for the forum. I sent you a PM to reply, and if you want to know the end of story I will reply to your PM. Well past statute of limitations for any crime I was involved in.

westernrvparkowner

montana

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Posted: 08/07/19 04:05pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:



I cannot say with any certainty that the US acting as world policeman is a great idea, but 80 years ago the collective world though it was a great idea to practice "mind our own business" and we ended up with Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan. A similiar outcome with the added threat of nuclear weapons is a world no one shoul even contemplate.


You might want to think about you history. Look at what military spending levels '39 compared to total worldwide military spending. Then look then and now, who is trying to dictate what the rest of the world wants to do. Better drop this line of talk.

BTW, somebody mentioned humanitarian aid. A while back a ebola outbreak someplace in Africa. Evening news, bragging US sending 3,000 Marines. Later BBC was thanking Cuba for sending 3000 Doctors...
Good for Cuba, though I cannot find any documentation that it actually happened. There were citations that cuba pledged 1000s of doctors for Syrian aid, but in actuality sent 256 along with 2 tons of medical supplies to settle a debt Cuba owed the Syrian government.
As for military spending, there is little correlation between military spending and military aggression. Iran and North Korea are both proven to be threats to regional stability in areas vital to the world's economy. It is in the interests of the US to keep both of those regimes in check. If that requires military presence in the strait of Hormuz and the Korean DMZ that is a price I feel is reasonable to pay.

DallasSteve

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Posted: 08/07/19 04:42pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yosemite Sam has sure dropped all pretense of this being a "non-political" thread as he stated at the beginning. LOL

Grodyman

Southern California

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Posted: 08/07/19 04:43pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Grodyman wrote:


Truth is, you need wealthy people to invest in businesses and corporations that create jobs. When you take away the incentive, jobs are lost and the system collapses (Socialism).


This is the myth that has developed since the '80s. I'm reasonably sure that if there is no demand for a good or service, there will be no investment in businesses or corporations to create new jobs. Instead the try to buy existing business, merger, cut costs (Workers). While Socialism is considered a foul word, if Capitalism is not regulated by Government, or IMHO better, strong unions, the wealth will be concentrated in fewer hands until the middle class is only people that used to be rich.


Hear, hear, this is a knowledgeable view. This is Keynes economic theory which Reaganomics tried to replace with trickle down – giving tax breaks for companies to invest and expand without the underlying consumer demand. We got instead bigger deficit, higher borrowings and eventually 3 recessions. Looks like history will repeat this time again.

Let’s also update ourselves and not be scared-sh*tless with the word “socialism”. It’s not the 50’s or the 60’s anymore where this means Soviet Union nor Russia. The new economic-political system now refers to it as Democractic Socialism modeled by the Nordic countries: Denmark, Finland, Norway, Switzerland, etc. These countries have been surveyed to be the happiest and healthiest on earth with free college, universal healthcare, 48:1 CEO to worker pay gap (US is 354 times average worker), and comfortable social security pensions for seniors.


Enjoy your democratic socialism, comrade:

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2019/08/07/you-gotta-hear-what-happened-at-the-socialist-convention/


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