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 > Bunkhouses similar to 272BHS with light hitch weight

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itsjustjer

Indianapolis, IN

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Posted: 08/02/19 11:17am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

badercubed wrote:

Coachman Apex Ultra-Lite 288BHS


That layout is nice. I might like that better than the superslide kind just because of the ease of conversation between couch and dinette.

gmckenzie

BC

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Posted: 08/02/19 11:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

itsjustjer wrote:


Pardon me if I come across as frustrated with this post, but if we can’t depend on ANY numbers from the vehicle or the RV manufacturer to be correct, then how has anyone ever purchased a vehicle and RV and known they were within their limits until after the fact?

Maybe we’ll just rent whatever model we’re thinking of buying and take it to the scale. Even then, that particular trailer isn’t going to weigh the same as the specific one we’ll be buying.


You are doing the right thing by asking here [emoticon]

Yes, it is frustrating knowing that the numbers are all over the map. Best rule of thumb is to use the trailer GVW and 13% of that for tongue weight.

In my case, the brochure lists my tongue weight as 630 lbs. My trailer GVW is 8,200 lbs (6,762 dry). My actual weight (based on taking it across a close scale and spending a half hour weighing every which way) is **** close to 8200 loaded and 1040 tongue (12.7%), or 65% more that the listed hitch weight.

In fact, the only way to get a reliable is to scale it (as you suggested). Outside of that it's a bit of a crapshoot unfortunately.


2015 GMC Sierra 4x4 CC SB Max Trailer
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Posted: 08/02/19 12:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Get a tongue scale (around $130ish - Shurline is one) and test some of the trailers. Then add what you know batteries, full LP tanks and other gear weighs.

We did and were surprised how much closer we were to the 15% than the 10. Especially after batteries were installed and LP tanks added & filled. As previously stated, suggest staying away from the 10%.


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avoidcrowds

Centennial, CO

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Posted: 08/02/19 01:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"but if we can’t depend on ANY numbers from the vehicle or the RV manufacturer to be correct,"

What, you're frustrated by the answers you are getting here? That's all part of trying to figure out weights, that's for sure.

I would say, "no", you cannot depend on numbers the RV manufacturers post. They all use a weight of the base trailer, with no options or additional equipment. They then weigh the tongue. Again, stripped. Not real-world numbers, in any way, shape, or form.

The best way to figure weights is to get the actual weight from trailers with your configuration, as they sit on the dealer's lot. The white sticker tells you the weight of the trailer as it left the manufacturer's lot. But, you still have to add batteries, water, and all of your stuff. That's why you have been advised to use GVRW of the trailer. However, you said the model you are interested in has (somethin like) 2,500 lbs of cargo capacity, and you won't use all of it. You say you have about 850 lbs of stuff, which does not account for water, batteries, etc. If you add water weight (you never know if the water will be available where you go, unless you always go to higher-end facilities, as there are water outages occasionally that have no backup plan), and 1,200 lbs for your stuff plus batteries, etc., that will give you a better "loaded" guesstimate than using published dry weight.

As others have said, use at least 13% of Gross Wt for tongue wt. You have no idea how the load will balance, compared to dry wt. Using the 10.7% tongue wt of a dry unit is assuming all loads will balance the same way as an empty trailer. Bad assumption. Err on the side of heavier tongue, so you don't find out most of the loaded wt is on the tongue.

Don't try to squeeze a trailer into your desired weight range. Be realistic with projections. I see others post questions, and the vast majority of the answers are not what they want to hear. Then, when someone says "yeah, my buddy tows with the same rig, and he is over the weight limit, but he has no problems", they jump on it and say "Thanks for letting me know it is okay". They ignore reality, to embrace only what they wanted to hear in the first place. Not good when your family's safety is at stake.

Good luck!


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Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 08/02/19 04:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

itsjustjer wrote:



Pardon me if I come across as frustrated with this post, but if we can’t depend on ANY numbers from the vehicle or the RV manufacturer to be correct, then how has anyone ever purchased a vehicle and RV and known they were within their limits until after the fact?

Maybe we’ll just rent whatever model we’re thinking of buying and take it to the scale. Even then, that particular trailer isn’t going to weigh the same as the specific one we’ll be buying.


Sorry that the answers you are getting do not fit your idea of a proper tow vehicle/trailer match.

Folks ARE giving you straight up GOOD ADVICE on tongue weight, I would REALLY RECOMMEND HEEDING THIS ADVICE.

10% tongue weight is THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, it IS LESS THAN IDEAL putting YOU AND YOUR FAMILY IN TO A PLACE YOU DO NOT WISH TO GO. That is especially true when "Mr MURPHY" decides to cross your path at the wrong time (like going down hill on a major Interstate at say 70 MPH and a deer jumps across the road). That is when you WILL be WISHING you had 15% tongue weight or more..

For each % above 10% you will find the trailer will track better and be much more stable. Some say 12%, some say 13% but personally, myself I LOVE 15%..

Yeah, I HAVE encountered not once but TWICE deer running right across the road while on a major Interstate while running 70 MPH.. Both times I was able to fully keep control of my vehicle and trailer without even changing lanes.

Granted in both cases I am driving a F250 with 6500 lbs of 26 ft trailer behind me and not once did it ever feel like I was about to lose control.

My tongue weight?

975 lbs loaded.. 15%

Empty weight of 5500 lbs I have 770 lbs on the tongue or 14%.

You simply will not like how your trailer tows if you run 10% tongue weight and most likely will be back complaining about it..

Tongue weight is your friend..

itsjustjer

Indianapolis, IN

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Posted: 08/03/19 10:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

itsjustjer wrote:



Pardon me if I come across as frustrated with this post, but if we can’t depend on ANY numbers from the vehicle or the RV manufacturer to be correct, then how has anyone ever purchased a vehicle and RV and known they were within their limits until after the fact?

Maybe we’ll just rent whatever model we’re thinking of buying and take it to the scale. Even then, that particular trailer isn’t going to weigh the same as the specific one we’ll be buying.


Sorry that the answers you are getting do not fit your idea of a proper tow vehicle/trailer match.

Folks ARE giving you straight up GOOD ADVICE on tongue weight, I would REALLY RECOMMEND HEEDING THIS ADVICE.

10% tongue weight is THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, it IS LESS THAN IDEAL putting YOU AND YOUR FAMILY IN TO A PLACE YOU DO NOT WISH TO GO. That is especially true when "Mr MURPHY" decides to cross your path at the wrong time (like going down hill on a major Interstate at say 70 MPH and a deer jumps across the road). That is when you WILL be WISHING you had 15% tongue weight or more..

For each % above 10% you will find the trailer will track better and be much more stable. Some say 12%, some say 13% but personally, myself I LOVE 15%..

Yeah, I HAVE encountered not once but TWICE deer running right across the road while on a major Interstate while running 70 MPH.. Both times I was able to fully keep control of my vehicle and trailer without even changing lanes.

Granted in both cases I am driving a F250 with 6500 lbs of 26 ft trailer behind me and not once did it ever feel like I was about to lose control.

My tongue weight?

975 lbs loaded.. 15%

Empty weight of 5500 lbs I have 770 lbs on the tongue or 14%.

You simply will not like how your trailer tows if you run 10% tongue weight and most likely will be back complaining about it..

Tongue weight is your friend..


I understand what you’re saying and that’s fine. My frustration comes from the inability to calculate ANY weight to ANY certain degree seeing as how it’s impossible to know that any weight is actually accurate from the manufacturer. How has anyone ever purchased a vehicle and camper and known they’d be compatible if we can’t rely on payload numbers or tongue weight numbers from the manufacturer?

There are a lot of campers I’ve looked at that state they have close to 3k lbs cargo carrying capacity. I’ve dragged out everything we had in our old camper and weighed it, plus weighed way more clothes than we’d ever bring realistically, plus so much more gear that we’d probably just shove in the camper to store it and probably never actually use. All of that weighs about 650 lbs (I think it was 644). I just rounded that up to 1k lbs because maybe we’ll want to travel with a tank of water sometime. Now there is a huge difference between adding an additional 1k lbs to the dry weight versus adding an additional 3k lbs to the dry weight. I’m all for over estimating (as you may have noticed), but over estimating by 2k lbs is kind of overkill considering everything else has been overestimated already. This is my problem with saying we’ll use the GVWR on a trailer. However, if we can’t rely on the dry weight to be even remotely accurate then how is it even possible for someone to know what weight they’re supposed to add their gear weight onto to find their loaded weight? That’s the frustration.

* This post was edited 08/03/19 10:59am by itsjustjer *

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 08/03/19 07:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

itsjustjer wrote:



I understand what you’re saying and that’s fine.

#1 My frustration comes from the inability to calculate ANY weight to ANY certain degree seeing as how it’s impossible to know that any weight is actually accurate from the manufacturer.

#2 How has anyone ever purchased a vehicle and camper and known they’d be compatible if we can’t rely on payload numbers or tongue weight numbers from the manufacturer?

#3 There are a lot of campers I’ve looked at that state they have close to 3k lbs cargo carrying capacity.

#4 I’ve dragged out everything we had in our old camper and weighed it, plus weighed way more clothes than we’d ever bring realistically, plus so much more gear that we’d probably just shove in the camper to store it and probably never actually use.

All of that weighs about 650 lbs (I think it was 644).

I just rounded that up to 1k lbs because maybe we’ll want to travel with a tank of water sometime.

#5 Now there is a huge difference between adding an additional 1k lbs to the dry weight versus adding an additional 3k lbs to the dry weight.

#6 I’m all for over estimating (as you may have noticed), but over estimating by 2k lbs is kind of overkill considering everything else has been overestimated already.

#7 This is my problem with saying we’ll use the GVWR on a trailer. However, if we can’t rely on the dry weight to be even remotely accurate then how is it even possible for someone to know what weight they’re supposed to add their gear weight onto to find their loaded weight? That’s the frustration.


#1 You way over thinking which is why you are frustrated.

Manufacturers cannot "publish" exact dry weight numbers in brochures, the reasons vary but the gist of it is there are variations in configurations due to options and or materials.

Manufacturers publish numbers based on the IDEAL materials on basic models, add in options and variations of materials and those numbers have gone out the door.

What manufacturers do now days because they are now forced to do is they will weigh each unit before it leaves the factory. That weight is now required to be posted inside the trailer. There will be a paper with all the empty weight specs which will typically be inside a cupboard cabinet in the kitchen.

So, you WILL NEED TO GO FIND A DEALER WITH THE TRAILER YOU ARE INTERESTED IN to get the exact info you are asking for.

However, IF the dealer has ADDED ANYTHING those weight numbers are now out the door.

Complicating things a bit, typically propane and battery ARE NOT INCLUDED ON THE WEIGHT STICKER!

#2 Using the GVWR of the trailer WILL prevent this very issue you are complaining about. That IS why folks here are telling you to buy using the GVWR!

You cannot go wrong with the GVWR, it is that simple.

By trying to weigh out everything including counting the amount of potato chips you can haul you are leaving yourself with zero margin for mistakes.

#3 WHO CARES if you have 3K of cargo capacity of the trailer??? Ignore that and get on with life, be GLAD you have extra cargo capacity that you are not using.. There is NO RULE THAT STATES YOU MUST USE EVERY OUNCE OF CARGO CAPACITY.

I honestly love knowing that I have more cargo capacity than I need, in fact makes things a lot safer since now you have brakes and tires with EXCESSIVE CAPACITY THAT YOU ARE NOT NEEDING TO USE!

#4 Good for you, most folks simply do not have any idea what they are dragging along with them but in reality buying a trailer with lots of cargo means you really did not have to go over the top on this.

#5 WHY all of this obsession with trying to use up all of the cargo capacity? Having more cargo capacity means the trailer is starting MUCH LOWER WEIGHT. Lower weight is good, your vehicle will thank you for not dragging the extra 2K of weight behind it.

#6 For some reason folks seem to think they are getting less of a trailer when it has a much higher cargo capacity.

The truth is you are not.

I suspect a lot of the folks who have trailers with 1K or less cargo capacity are the ones who typically have a lot of axle and tire issues.. You are getting a lot more margin on tires especially and most likely will never need to upgrade the tires to stop excessive tire blowouts..

#7 You are making your life miserable by worrying about dry weights, buying a trailer based on the MAXIMUM GVWR the trailer can haul simplifies your life and having 2K or 3K cargo capacity means you should never ever need to use the entire capacity of the trailer.

In other words, gives you a big safety margin by not ever loading to the maximum GVWR..

Yes, there are a lot of folks on this forum who use the dry weights to justify their (poor or often bad) choice of buying a much larger and heavier trailer than they should..

I call it the "supersize" mentality..

DON'T BE THAT PERSON!

CJM1973

Trenton, MI

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Posted: 08/03/19 09:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Haven't read all the responses but I can give the OP my personal feelings on these Bullets. I own a 308BHS. They are tongue heavy coaches, especially with the big front passthrough, storage under the main bed, kitchen cabinets in front of the the axles, and the fresh water tank in front.

As others have pointed out already, dry weights and towing capacities are fictitious numbers promoted by marketing teams to sell coaches. The real specs are GVWR (both trailer and TV), GCVWR, axle ratings, tire ratings, and the achilles heel of any 1/2 ton, payload capacity.

We started out with a Yukon XL Denali which had plenty of pulling power. Our 7600# GVR trailer wasn't maxed but it very close. Hitch weight was nearly 1050 lbs. Our trucks payload was just under 1600 lbs. Between the weight of passengers, car seats, a few bags behind the 3rd row, and the WDH (about 100 lbs), we used up all the payload capacity.

A couple white knuckle trips that first season had us upgrading to a Hensley Arrow and a more appropriate 3/4 ton tow vehicle by the start of the 2nd season.

First rule of thumb for any trailer is always use the GVWR. Don't estimate anything based off how much one may or may not load into the trailer. Assume 15% TW. Don't know if there are kids in the equation but if there are, most like to bring toys, bikes, inflatables, camping gear, books, devices, etc etc. Stuff adds up very quickly. Tools, fishing gear, food, pots, pans, toiletries, bbq's, propane all need to be accounted for.

There are 1/2 ton trucks with HD towing and heavy duty payload packages. Unfortunately, the full size SUVs of today aren't optioned with them. A truck's wheelbase is notably longer too, providing for more stability and control.

Many of us have joined the "been there, done that" crowd either because we didn't know any better or just took the ill advice of who didn't either. It's an expensive lesson to learn especially as truck prices keep exponentially.

Good luck and safe travels.

opnspaces

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Posted: 08/03/19 10:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have a 27bh but no slide so it's dry weight is in the low 4,000s and it has about 2500 lbs cargo capacity. On a good day I might be hauling an extra 800lbs of gear but not really likely and I honesty don't really care, nor have I ever weighed it.

I tow it with a 3/4 ton Suburban and have done so for years. I don't know if you have considered a 3/4 ton (that would be a K2500 4x4 or C2500 4x2) I run the E rated tires and when not towing I lower pressure to 40 front and 50 rear per GMC's recommendation. This is also our road trip vehicle and has been for the last 15 years. The ride is decent and has never bothered me nor the kids.

If you haven't already you might look and see if you can get a bit more cargo capacity with a 2500 and then buy with the reassurance that you're not going to overload anything. Another way to spot a 2500 is they have 8 lug nuts per wheel instead of 6 lug nuts on the 1/2 tons.


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1986 Coleman Columbia Popup.

librty02

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Posted: 08/06/19 07:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

And also if you decide on going to look at a 3/4 ton truck you must also watch their payloads. A 3/4 ton gas truck will have a lot more payload than a 3/4 ton diesel truck does. Heck I've looked at some loaded up 3/4 ton diesel trucks before that had payload capacities as low as the 1600 lb range...most don't go over 2100 lbs unless they are less optioned models. So if you would decide on a diesel I would highly recommend a 1 ton as it will have more payload capacity at very little cost difference than the 3/4 ton. But honestly a 3/4 ton gas would fit your bill perfectly and most likely not cost much more than that 1/2 ton Suburban...good luck in your search


2011 FORD F-150 FX4 CREW CAB ECO...
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