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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Titan Cummins Diesel option axed for 2020

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ShinerBock

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Posted: 08/06/19 01:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

thomasmnile wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ib516 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

SOOOOO, where will the Cummins land???

That's a good question.


This engine was initially designed for the medium duty cab-over and delivery truck market which it has had some success. I would even wager that Cummins has sold more ISV 5.0L in cab-overs/delivery trucks than they did in Titan XD's.


Was wondering what other applications it was built for. Poking around the internet didn't find anything outside of Cummins website and it mentioned pickups only...of which Nissan was the only customer.

Cummins may even have an uphill fight in the medium duty arena. I recall reading a fire apparatus manufacturer, was either Pierce or E ONE, is offering the Ford 6.7 L diesel in a custom pumper as an alternative to the Cummins engine options offered. Is the Ford engine less complex or less trouble prone from an emissions standpoint. Cost savings over a comparable displacement Cummins inline 6?


Not really. The last conference we had from Cummins executives showed a 75% market share in the medium duty market and shipped a record number of engines the first half of the year. This does not even include the engines they build for other manufacturers like the PACCAR PX engines which are re-branded Cummins ISB and ISL engines.

Cummins or its re-branded alternate is also the only diesel engine option in most medium duty school/shuttle bus, refuge, and van truck applications for almost all of the truck manufacturers. If you ever see one of these vehciles, there is a 9/10 chance that there is either a ISB or ISL under the hood.

The reason why Pierce moved to the PSD 6.7L might be due to packaging. It is a lot easier to fit a push rod V8 in a tight space than a tall and long I6 with a turbo. They are essentially the same width due to the turbo and intake on the Cummins, but the push rod V8 PSD is shorter in both length and height.

* This post was edited 08/06/19 01:46pm by ShinerBock *

blownstang01

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Posted: 08/06/19 01:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

I think the XD is going to keep failing until Nissan finally stops telling truck buyers what they need and start giving them what they want. Nissan keeps saying that most "3/4 ton" HD truck buyers don't need that much capability or that much power. While this is true, but most HD truck buyers want the capability with full floating axles and the power of a big engine. This is why the big three are giving buyers both with bigger more powerful engines and and beefier truck components.

Then again, this is not the first time a foreign truck make tried to tell the US truck market what it needs and then went the way of the dodo or had to finally give buyers what they wanted with a major redesign before they had any meaningful sales numbers. It also doesn't help that this truck has a front end that only a mother could love.


Spot on.
Every time any manufacturer told the public what they "need" has failed miserably.

noteven

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Posted: 08/06/19 03:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Our on highway rep from Cummins told me the 5.0 automotive V8 engine was designed for Dodge 1500 series trucks and vans prior to the formation of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles.

womps

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Posted: 08/06/19 04:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Most automotive manufacturers do something to increase sales. Apparently Nissan isn’t one of them.

thomasmnile

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Posted: 08/06/19 04:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Shiner, I looked up the application on Pierce's website. The 6.7/Torq-Shift power train combo is apparently available on the Saber chassis which is an entry level custom chassis. The engine is rated for 330 HP, 725 lb/ft of torque. The adaptation was engineered for Pierce by Ford and Roush. What I wonder is the truck is spec'd with a 1500 gpm pump. Wonder how the engine will do running it, believe the pump is single stage.

N-Trouble

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Posted: 08/06/19 07:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wow that didnt last long. Wonder what it will mean for resale for current owners.

I still to this day dont get the sub-3/4 ton diesel market. It will always be a niche market


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rjstractor

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Posted: 08/06/19 07:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

thomasmnile wrote:

Cummins may even have an uphill fight in the medium duty arena. I recall reading a fire apparatus manufacturer, was either Pierce or E ONE, is offering the Ford 6.7 L diesel in a custom pumper as an alternative to the Cummins engine options offered. Is the Ford engine less complex or less trouble prone from an emissions standpoint. Cost savings over a comparable displacement Cummins inline 6?


It's Pierce that is using the 6.7 PSD, and it did catch me by surprise a little. The ISB Cummins hasn't been really been used much in fire apparatus in recent years (at least not by Pierce) and time will tell if the 6.7 PSD works out. It may work out well for departments that want a lower cost apparatus in an area where they don't have a lot of hills. To be honest, one of these motors in a municipal fire pumper is a little like putting a Chrysler Pentastar V6 in a Ram 2500. Good power on paper, but way down on torque compared with more conventional offerings.

As far as cost, while I haven't talked to a Pierce engineer in a couple of years, I imagine the Ford package comes "pre-engineered" in terms of transmission (supplied by Ford), and emission systems. Rousch also has a big part of the engineering for that engine application. For any given engine application in fire apparatus, the apparatus manufacturer must do all the applicable engineering to use that motor, which is time consuming and expensive, especially with modern emission systems. Having the package ready to drop in probably saves them a lot of money compared with sourcing the 6.7 ISB from Cummins, mating it to an Allison transmission and engineering an emission system. Again, this is mostly conjecture on my part. Sorry for getting a "little in the weeds". [emoticon]

thomasmnile

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Posted: 08/06/19 08:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rjstractor wrote:

thomasmnile wrote:

Cummins may even have an uphill fight in the medium duty arena. I recall reading a fire apparatus manufacturer, was either Pierce or E ONE, is offering the Ford 6.7 L diesel in a custom pumper as an alternative to the Cummins engine options offered. Is the Ford engine less complex or less trouble prone from an emissions standpoint. Cost savings over a comparable displacement Cummins inline 6?


It's Pierce that is using the 6.7 PSD, and it did catch me by surprise a little. The ISB Cummins hasn't been really been used much in fire apparatus in recent years (at least not by Pierce) and time will tell if the 6.7 PSD works out. It may work out well for departments that want a lower cost apparatus in an area where they don't have a lot of hills. To be honest, one of these motors in a municipal fire pumper is a little like putting a Chrysler Pentastar V6 in a Ram 2500. Good power on paper, but way down on torque compared with more conventional offerings.

As far as cost, while I haven't talked to a Pierce engineer in a couple of years, I imagine the Ford package comes "pre-engineered" in terms of transmission (supplied by Ford), and emission systems. Rousch also has a big part of the engineering for that engine application. For any given engine application in fire apparatus, the apparatus manufacturer must do all the applicable engineering to use that motor, which is time consuming and expensive, especially with modern emission systems. Having the package ready to drop in probably saves them a lot of money compared with sourcing the 6.7 ISB from Cummins, mating it to an Allison transmission and engineering an emission system. Again, this is mostly conjecture on my part. Sorry for getting a "little in the weeds". [emoticon]


No sweat, 32 years of my life was spent in the fire service. Great job and good times. [emoticon]

FishOnOne

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Posted: 08/06/19 08:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Not surprised that the "C" badge on the fender couldn't save this truck... And the Ram Ecodiesel better get their act together or they'll be next.

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'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
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wowens79

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Posted: 08/06/19 09:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When they first announced it, I thought it would be about perfect to tow my 8000 lb TT. Then when it came out, it was ugly, expensive, reports of poor gas mileage. Novel idea, but poor execution.


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