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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > How do you really judge TV adequacy anymore?

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Mickeyfan0805

SE Wisconsin

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Posted: 09/10/19 04:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've spent a lot of time looking at the ever-changing capabilities of pick-ups, and a separate thread earlier today really go me thinking about the uselessness of truck categories. The 1/2, 3/4 and 1-ton badges simply don't mean what they once did. With this in mind,
I went to the 2019 Ford specs and found an F150 with 13k in conventional towing and 2,870 in payload. Meanwhile, I found an F350 with 12,300 in towing and 2,910 in payload.

Now, these are the rarities and the extremes, but it points out the variance in the traditional truck grades, and it makes me ask a question. Even the most conservative rules of thumb, when we first started in the camping world 10 years ago, suggested that one could tow up to 80% of towing capacity. Then, in the 1/2 ton market, we would always say that payload was the limiting factor. The thing is, it's not anymore!

In the F150 case above, the 80% rule would have someone towing a 10,400 pound trailer with an F150, and that would only use 1,200-1,500 pounds of their 2,870 payload - giving them plenty of leeway for passengers and gear.

So, my question is this...How do we judge what is sufficient anymore? How do we know what a truck is realistically capable of? I don't know many F150 owners that would suggest towing a 10k trailer, but one could do that well within the limits of the modern-day specs.

I've always been one to say, 'Know your numbers and live within them.' That is the rule I've followed myself. Now I wonder if that advice is really sufficient anymore.

Old-Biscuit

Verde Valley

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Posted: 09/10/19 04:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The ole 1/2, 3/4 1 ton designations no longer apply.......haven't for YEARS

What does apply is 'CLASS' Ratings
GVWR Ranges define CLASS

Class I-------up to 6000#
Class II--------up to 10,000#
Class III----------up to 14,000#


GVWR minus UVW equals Payload

For ME........I go by Axle/Tire Load Ratings to determine WHAT Can I Tow?


Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
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4x4ord

Alberta

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Posted: 09/10/19 05:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think the manufacturers tow ratings make better sense now than they ever did. The thing people need to be aware of is that HD3/4 tons are identical to 1 tons other than they have less leafs in the rear springs which prevent them from being able to carry much of a trailer. Once the manufactures stop producing these useless 3/4 tons and put the 3/4 ton badging on the 1 ton SRW everything will make sense..... it will be if a half ton won't do it you gets a 3/4 (which will be sprung like a present day 1ton SRW) if the 3/4 ton doesn't cut it you get a 1 ton which means you get duals


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BB_TX

McKinney, Texas

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Posted: 09/10/19 07:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Those 150/1500, 250/2500, and 350/3500 numbers on the side don’t tell much any more. There are so many configuration variations, and subsequent variations in ratings, of each that you have to look in depth the ratings for each and how they were obtained.

Walaby

Georgia

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Posted: 09/10/19 07:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Old-Biscuit wrote:

The ole 1/2, 3/4 1 ton designations no longer apply.......haven't for YEARS

What does apply is 'CLASS' Ratings
GVWR Ranges define CLASS

Class I-------up to 6000#
Class II--------up to 10,000#
Class III----------up to 14,000#


GVWR minus UVW equals Payload

For ME........I go by Axle/Tire Load Ratings to determine WHAT Can I Tow?

^^^^^This^^^^^


Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
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rjstractor

Maple Valley, WA

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Posted: 09/10/19 07:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The "80% rule" is made up and has no basis in fact. As the gross combined weight of any tow vehicle increases, performance and durability decline. At the GCWR, a parameter of performance, whether it's braking, acceleration, handling or starting gradeability has declined to the point where one or more of these factors is not acceptable to the manufacturer. An individual's idea of acceptable performance and/or durability may differ from that of the OEM. For some folks it's at 80%, others will pull 1 1/2 times a truck's GCWR and not think twice about it.

A somewhat separate issue discussed ad nauseum on this forum is the fact that in some cases a truck will be overloaded in terms of GVWR or GAWR long before its rated GCWR is reached, and other trucks will hit their GCWR with plenty of gross and axle weight to spare. The moral of the story is that all the various capacities of each truck must be evaluated against a specific trailer to determine whether it's a good fit.

badercubed

Canandaigua, NY

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Posted: 09/10/19 08:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Old-Biscuit wrote:

The ole 1/2, 3/4 1 ton designations no longer apply.......haven't for YEARS

What does apply is 'CLASS' Ratings
GVWR Ranges define CLASS

Class I-------up to 6000#
Class II--------up to 10,000#
Class III----------up to 14,000#


GVWR minus UVW equals Payload

For ME........I go by Axle/Tire Load Ratings to determine WHAT Can I Tow?
This right here.

Consider my Canyon. It's almost a 3/4 ton with 1,470lbs of payload on the door.


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BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 09/10/19 09:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Those ratings are based, mostly, on a 10% tongue

Real world will mostly be north of that 10% and that will reduce the MTWR and, or payload rating...plus would eat into the rear axle’s rating

Am with old-biscuit...RGAWR is my main, but not only criteria

Will always have tires rated for more than the axle rating

Also, some trailers just tow better...to some are horrible...so just using their weight would be worthless


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Posted: 09/10/19 09:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"How do you really judge TV adequacy anymore?"

Honestly, if I get over 75 channels, and I can tolerate 7, I consider that adequate.


Howard and Peggy

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Me Again

Sunbird(Wa)/snowbird(Az)

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Posted: 09/10/19 10:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

I think the manufacturers tow ratings make better sense now than they ever did. The thing people need to be aware of is that HD3/4 tons are identical to 1 tons other than they have less leafs in the rear springs which prevent them from being able to carry much of a trailer. Once the manufactures stop producing these useless 3/4 tons and put the 3/4 ton badging on the 1 ton SRW everything will make sense..... it will be if a half ton won't do it you gets a 3/4 (which will be sprung like a present day 1ton SRW) if the 3/4 ton doesn't cut it you get a 1 ton which means you get duals


You have it all backwards!!! My 2001.5 RAM 2500 with camper option was really a SRW 3500 in a year that RAM did not offer one.

Now GM has just blurred the line with a 2500HD with a GVWR beyond 10K class 2 segment.

It is the 250/2500 that should go away!!! The can I tow this threads would go way down.

In the mean time I will keep my 2015 RAM 3500 SRW with room for 3500+ on the rear axle. Here is 3000+ between the rear axle and tailgate. Try that in your Ford 350 SRW without air bags.

[image]


2015 RAM 3500 CC SB SRW Our Rig New 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Commuter trailer 2019 Laredo 225MK. Retired and enjoying it!


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