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 > Converted to Lithium-Ion be careful.

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work2much

Jackson Ca

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Posted: 09/13/19 10:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jaycocreek wrote:



As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...



That's a lot like saying:

As far a diesel trucks and reliability, one word, Ford6.0


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Kayteg1

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Posted: 09/13/19 10:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

camperdave wrote:



Can you imagine using flooded lead acid batteries in your cell phone? lol.


I don't know what type of the battery it was, but I had first flip-phone that hit the market like 30 years ago.
Extended life battery was over 1" thick, was pulling my construction pants down and require recharging every 12 hr - even without air time.





jaycocreek

Idaho

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Posted: 09/13/19 11:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

work2much wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:



As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...



That's a lot like saying:

As far a diesel trucks and reliability, one word, Ford6.0


Lithium battery fires go far beyond just Samsung cell phones..

On airplanes

There have been dozens of aircraft fires caused by lithium batteries?, so many that the batteries are no longer welcome as cargo on passenger flights.


Tesla

In August, a Tesla electric car caught fire during a promotional tour in southwest France


Hoverboards

Hoverboards?, or self-balancing scooters, have been linked with at least 99 electrical fires in the U.S., according to the the Consumer Product Safety Commission


Computer batteries

In June HP recalled nearly 50,000 HP, Compaq, HP ProBook, HP ENVY, Compaq Presario, and HP Pavilion computers after seven reports of battery packs overheating, melting or charring, including four reports of property damage totaling about $4,000.


Lithium batteries are not without there issues..

work2much

Jackson Ca

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Posted: 09/13/19 11:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jaycocreek wrote:

work2much wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:



As for the Lithium batteries and fires,one word Samsung...



That's a lot like saying:

As far a diesel trucks and reliability, one word, Ford6.0


Lithium battery fires go far beyond just Samsung cell phones..

On airplanes

There have been dozens of aircraft fires caused by lithium batteries?, so many that the batteries are no longer welcome as cargo on passenger flights.


Tesla

In August, a Tesla electric car caught fire during a promotional tour in southwest France


Hoverboards

Hoverboards?, or self-balancing scooters, have been linked with at least 99 electrical fires in the U.S., according to the the Consumer Product Safety Commission


Computer batteries

In June HP recalled nearly 50,000 HP, Compaq, HP ProBook, HP ENVY, Compaq Presario, and HP Pavilion computers after seven reports of battery packs overheating, melting or charring, including four reports of property damage totaling about $4,000.


Lithium batteries are not without there issues..


None of these are LifePO4 chemistry lithium batteries.

That is the point. You need to dig down farther. Lithium is a broad type of battery. Within that group there are subsets with differing chemistries. You are welcome to lump them all together with respect to their safety but you wouldn't be accurate doing so. Lithium iron phosphate batteries do not have a history of catching on fire. They are not used in laptops, cell phones, cars, or hover boards.

phemens

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Posted: 09/13/19 11:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sure, and getting up in the morning and putting on pants brings a risk of falling and breaking your neck.
As with any other technology, risk will never be 0, but needs to be measured in context. 7 reports of battery packs over several 100,000 laptops. Bet that there were more issues with someone getting injured because they were physically hit by a laptop than that.
I have LIFePO4 batteries in my 5er. Guess what, I also have 100's of pounds of LP in canisters. Funny how no one constantly brings that up...


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Lwiddis

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Posted: 09/13/19 11:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"The actual bulletin referenced did, however, focus on a major issue, lack of exit routes"

And today we learned the entire crew was asleep. That's why a criminal investigation has been opened.


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jaycocreek

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Posted: 09/13/19 12:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I agree and I am not knocking anyone who chooses to use them in there RV as these people did and were glad they had the BMS warning system..

Lithium batteries installed in Lance camper.

Quote:

When we installed the lithium battery in Lance in the first place, I wanted to make sure to keep it inside. My thinking was to avoid this too-cold/too-hot discussion altogether. Because, if it’s comfortable in the van for humans, it’s comfortable for the battery. But just putting the battery inside wasn’t enough. I hadn’t counted on two things.

First, the battery was installed inside a closed compartment. This keeps it somewhat (but not completely) isolated from the temperature inside the van. That’s what I rectify with the project in this video.

Second, I’ve learned that charging the battery – especially at rates of 100 Amps or more – can really cause the battery to heat up. In fact, charging the battery causes it to heat up more than dis-charging it.

So on a recent trip we were:

driving across the desert
charging the battery at over 100A
keeping the battery sealed up in its compartment near the skin of the van.
And our battery got really hot. In fact, it got up over 131 degrees Fahrenheit, and the Battery Management System (BMS) shut the show down. When the battery’s internal temperature dropped back down to a safe level, it just turned itself on again. So I did some checking with Lithionics, who makes our battery, and found out that their BMS enforces two over-temperature conditions.

At temperatures of 114 degrees Fahrenheit and above, charging the battery is not allowed.
At temperatures of 132 degrees Fahrenheit and above, discharging the battery is not allowed.
It does this through a battery temperature sensor that is internal to the battery (not just surface temperature or the temperature in the battery compartment). These limits are set by Lithionics to prevent damaging the battery. I had no idea that our battery got that hot, but now I know. Time will tell how well my venting solution works.

The Key Takeaway
But here’s the big point. If my battery was NOT protected by the BMS, I could have done serious damage to it. SO – if you’re spending the money to upgrade to lithium batteries, it really pays to make sure that your batteries are protected by a solid BMS.

I know that the systems offered today by Winnebago and Coachmen (Volta and Xantrex systems, respectively) are protected by a BMS. Other manufacturers? Maybe, but I simply don’t know. Drop-in lithium replacements? I don’t know. “Roll your own” buy-a-bunch-of-cheap-cells-and-wire-them-together-yourself systems? Probably not.

So there you have it. I’ll be watching my battery’s internal temperature closely in the coming months, so we’ll see how well this mod works.



camperdave

northern, California

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Posted: 09/13/19 12:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jaycocreek wrote:

I agree and I am not knocking anyone who chooses to use them in there RV as these people did and were glad they had the BMS warning system..


I don't think anyone would suggest using Li cells of any kind without a BMS. My phone shuts off charging when it's too hot. My car cuts waaay back and runs a cooling fan when it's too hot.

My experience on my old CALB LiFePo4 cells was that they didn't heat at all if I stay under .3c when charging (39a on my 130ah cells), but I can imagine different cells are different.


2004 Fleetwood Tioga 29v

work2much

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Posted: 09/13/19 12:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

All of the consumer grade drop in lithium batteries on the market today have a BMS that controls temperatures, voltages, cell balancing and short circuit protection. They are pretty idiot proof.

Kayteg1

California > Nevada

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Posted: 09/13/19 01:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

work2much wrote:

They are pretty idiot proof.


Is there such a thing?

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