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 > This charger/converter + this battery = ?

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Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 09/13/19 09:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RKW wrote:

BFL13 wrote:

Review of the battery here, with more spec info and analysis for RV use etc.

https://www.deepcyclemarinebattery.com/r........x-ml4d-12v-200ah-4d-sla-agm-battery.html

The 45 amp charger is rated above the AGM 20% "rule" for bulk stage. Usually in RVs you won't see that 45 at the battery but might get 40 or so.

You would need to use the CW to keep it at 14.4 for the whole time until the battery gets down to 1 amp (signal it is full) before dropping to 13.6. And you will need an ammeter to know when it is down to that 1 amp. (I use my Trimetric for that with my AGMs)

The 14.4v of the PD is at the low end of the charging voltage range in the spec, which is at 77F. Any cooler out than 77F makes the 14.4 too low, but also that temp is related to battery temp while being charged, so it should be ok down to some lesser ambient.

So it could be ok as a combo. The one 200AH is not well suited for high amp short time inverter work (as with a MW or toaster), as mentioned in that linked review above.


Thanks for the in depth reponse.

Everyone who asks a question is hoping for a particular answer and I was hoping that I could pair the two and forget them, out of sight and out of mind. Sounds like I'll have to find my Trimeteric and return it to service.

The suitability of the battery vis a vis the inverter isn't an issue as I've never utilized an inverter.

FYI to the forum, 90% of the time my RV will be sitting on the pad and connected to shore power and in 20 years of RVing I've probably only boondocked 10 times and all those were just overnight.


[image]

What a complete waste of money on a AGM battery for THIS purpose.

For what YOU are doing a much cheaper group 24 or 27 combo RV/marine LEAD ACID battery WILL do exactly what you need to do AND should be able to squeak out 8-10 yrs of life provided you are able to add water (IE has removable caps).

Been there, done that with my first TT, ran furnace overnight and still had some battery leftover in the morning..

Sometimes we can easily get caught up in modern battery/technology hype and willing to dump tons of money into plain overkill..

Kind of like using a cannon to swat a fly..

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 09/13/19 09:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lenr wrote:

Don't know if it is true for all AGMs, but Trojan T-105 AGM says do not equalize. I believe that periodic equalization is Progressive Dynamics big claim to fame with the charge wizard. I would choose a converter that allows setting the maximum voltage.


The PD "equalize" is not the same thing as what the AGM advice is warning about. All the PD "equalize" does is give a shot of 14.4 every so often amongst its 13.2 storage "stage" It really should be called "destratification".

In fact you do "equalize" an AGM if needed, except they call it "conditioning" and maybe not to such a high voltage as with Wets. Say 15.5 for an AGM vs 16.2 for a Wet.

It depends, as usual.


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RKW

Four Corners, New Mexico

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Posted: 09/13/19 11:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:



What a complete waste of money on a AGM battery for THIS purpose.

For what YOU are doing a much cheaper group 24 or 27 combo RV/marine LEAD ACID battery WILL do exactly what you need to do AND should be able to squeak out 8-10 yrs of life provided you are able to add water (IE has removable caps).

Been there, done that with my first TT, ran furnace overnight and still had some battery leftover in the morning..

Sometimes we can easily get caught up in modern battery/technology hype and willing to dump tons of money into plain overkill..

Kind of like using a cannon to swat a fly..


It's funny you should mention running the furnace overnight. That's one of the reasons I wanted a 200ah bank. My previous bank was 2 Trojan T-105's. I tend to drift to overkill to be prepared for the odd time I think I'll need that "extra". My stereo system has to too many watts of power, my car goes too fast, and my barbeque grill can cook 20 hamburgers at a time.


Ryan

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  • pianotuna

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    Posted: 09/14/19 08:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    Hi lenr,

    That "fame" is 15 minutes every 20 hours. That can be more or less ignored.

    lenr wrote:

    Don't know if it is true for all AGMs, but Trojan T-105 AGM says do not equalize. I believe that periodic equalization is Progressive Dynamics big claim to fame with the charge wizard. I would choose a converter that allows setting the maximum voltage.



    Regards, Don
    My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp hours of AGM in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

    Gdetrailer

    PA

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    Posted: 09/14/19 09:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    RKW wrote:

    Gdetrailer wrote:



    What a complete waste of money on a AGM battery for THIS purpose.

    For what YOU are doing a much cheaper group 24 or 27 combo RV/marine LEAD ACID battery WILL do exactly what you need to do AND should be able to squeak out 8-10 yrs of life provided you are able to add water (IE has removable caps).

    Been there, done that with my first TT, ran furnace overnight and still had some battery leftover in the morning..

    Sometimes we can easily get caught up in modern battery/technology hype and willing to dump tons of money into plain overkill..

    Kind of like using a cannon to swat a fly..


    It's funny you should mention running the furnace overnight. That's one of the reasons I wanted a 200ah bank. My previous bank was 2 Trojan T-105's. I tend to drift to overkill to be prepared for the odd time I think I'll need that "extra". My stereo system has to too many watts of power, my car goes too fast, and my barbeque grill can cook 20 hamburgers at a time.


    My current TT, I changed to a pair of FLA 6V GC batteries, the ONLY reason for that was I did a household fridge conversion. 200ah runs my home fridge, PLUS furnace (a BIGGER higher draw 30K furnace), PLUS a bunch of lights (LED) for a few hrs in the evening.. AND the batteries MUST support the fridge while DRIVING (charge line works but not all that much stock).

    To put in more perspective..

    I typically take two days driving (8 hrs of driving each day) with one overnight stop (overnight from 9 PM to 6AM) then to final destination.

    First TT (1980s 20ft) with the same trip with a plain generic vanilla group 27 RV/marine battery, ran 18K furnace (5A blower) overnight plus a bunch of 20W incadescent lights for several hrs in the evening and a short time in the morning. This trailer had an oldschool transformer based converter which was hard on battery water but I was able to get 5 yrs of battery life with it.

    Same trip with our 26ft TT, 30K furnace has a 10A blower and we converted to all LED lights but adding in a all electric fridge, doing all that on ONE pair of 6V 200ah GC batts in series for 12V. This TT I put in a PD9160 with a charge wizard pendant and our first set of GC batts gave us 9 yrs before they started losing capacity.

    The ONLY "reasons" (and it IS a very weak one at that) for AGMs in the OPs case is to remove the watering and possible terminal corrosion maintenance.

    Even "maintenance free" (IE no removable caps)FLA should be easily able to squeak by with 5-6 yrs of life with the PD or any other decent multistage chargers. With the OP rarely deeply discharging the battery, just one group 27 FLA should give the OP 40ah-50ah of capacity (which unless they have a furnace with 10A blower running continually for 8hrs should easily be able to overnight).

    As far a terminal corrosion goes, I rarley ever see that with any of my vehicles nor do I see that with my FLA GC batts.. When terminals start corroding it typically IS because of the SEAL between the battery case AND the terminal HAS FAILED. The seal fails and the acid from the battery will creep up the terminals.

    I also use something called No-Alox, which is a terminal grease designed for preventing oxidation between electrical connections. Typically used to interface aluminum entrance wire to your homes breaker panel, it works wonders at preventing brass, copper or aluminum wire connections from oxidizing in outdoor settings.

    I just do not think in the case of the OP that it is worth popping for the cost of AGM, not really taking advantage of the main reasons for them which is quicker charging and better handling high amperage draws (like microwave). OP can get more ahr capacity for less money in FLA than with AGM (although AGM costs have come down they are still more expensive and offer no more life than FLA).

    SoundGuy

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    Posted: 09/14/19 09:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    RKW wrote:

    FYI to the forum, 90% of the time my RV will be sitting on the pad and connected to shore power and in 20 years of RVing I've probably only boondocked 10 times and all those were just overnight.


    Considering your intended use I see no need for such a large capacity battery when a G24 would suit your needs 90% of your camping time. Having replaced my aged flooded G27 Interstate with a G31 AGM from East Penn I'd recommend an AGM that requires zero maintenance, other than periodic recharging of course. Size, your choice and how much you want to spend - G24, G27, G31 - but even a G24 should get you through an overnight stay. That, and the fact that in a pinch you can always draw from your tow vehicle as long as you keep that draw minimal. I also keep a small lithium battery jump starter in the truck in the rare case I might have pulled the truck battery down more than I should have, an example being the NOCO GB40 Jump Starter.


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    RKW

    Four Corners, New Mexico

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    Posted: 09/14/19 09:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    Thanks for the replies so far. Good info.

    MEXICOWANDERER

    las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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    Posted: 09/14/19 04:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    The way a battery is TREATED has 99.999999% to do with how long it lasts. There is a period to the left as you will notice.

    Power Pole Princess batteries can last a long time. So a battery that sees a week of cycling then hundreds of hours of PPP charging will last longer than a continuously full cycled battery even with the most accurate care. Another period.

    Trying to compare the two batteries would rate right up there with Einstein's famous quote.

    It's as nuts as those fabulously stupid

    "I lived to 103 years by......"

    People eat it up.

    And they vote! That is even scarier.

    SoundGuy

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    Posted: 09/14/19 07:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    Gdetrailer wrote:

    What a complete waste of money on a AGM battery for THIS purpose.


    Yes and no. Of course a flooded battery will serve the OP's purpose just fine but an AGM, despite it's higher cost, is preferred by an increasing number of RVrs simply because they're sealed and require no watering at all. I replaced a 10 yr old G27 flooded Interstate with an East Penn AGM and wouldn't ever go back to flooded. K.I.S.S. [emoticon]

    MEXICOWANDERER

    las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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    Posted: 09/14/19 07:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

    9The secret is to take care of whatever battery you have. Then it will pay dividends. It seems only BFL 13, a serious boondocker has a serious grasp of the total concept.

    It's the MONEY $$$$$ spent on total kWh hours of accumulation that matters. This must be vectored so as to encompass TOTAL hours of attention directed toward charging and maintenance (including fuel cost and the amount of $$$$$ and time spent to refuel).

    My object is to NOT spend a hundred dollars a day on fuel to recreate. If I spend a hundred bucks I want to ring down for room service for my Eggs Benedict and fresh-squeezed orange juice.

    If I had to dance the Macarena to have fun, I hitched a feed bag of oats onto the hoss and mule and tossed pack-saddles, and hauled ass. Into the woods, I went. I want to arise to the sound of a Jay, and hollow-sounding woodpecker announcing his turf.

    Screw having heaters blow out at 4 AM -- that isn't recreation to me -- it's a pain in the ass.

    If you want rolling luxury, artificial environment, and talking heads on the wall with no one paying attention, you need to plan for it and accept the cost consequences. Fantasy just got its ass kicked by reality. One thing that dreamers have a hard-time with = reality.

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