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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

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theoldwizard1

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Posted: 10/10/19 05:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Neutral is neutral. Ground is ground. All neutral should meet at the neutral bus bar inside the breaker panel. All grounds should meet at the ground bus bar inside the breaker panel.

joe6789 wrote:

The Multiplus can supplement short power with inverted battery power simultaneously. However, I don't expect to need that feature. I will usually either be connected to 50A shore power OR boondocking off batteries (with occasional generator use).


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enblethen

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Posted: 10/10/19 06:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The inverter constitutes a derived service and should follow the requirements of NEC Art 250-30.
How does the inverter instructions say about how to wire the system. I believe it will say not to connect them together!
I still say the easiest is to extend the one branch circuit to feed straight off inverter. No overcurrent protection required, no chance of back-feeding and very easy to do.


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joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 08:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

joe6789 wrote:

I did see that diagram earlier but I wasn't sure how to adapt it since I'm using only one inverter instead of two.

Can you please help me interpret how I would apply that diagram to my single-inverter setup? Let's say AC line 1 goes into the inverter and then out to the breaker panel. AC line 2 would have no inverter and go straight to the breaker panel.

In the diagram, the neutral is branched going into both inverters and then re-merged afterwards. Would I likewise need to branch the neutral wire, with one going through the inverter and the other going straight to the breaker panel? I've received some advice that the two neutral lines would have to be isolated, but in this diagram they are not, so I'm not sure what to believe there.
The single neutral would go through the inverter. When the inverter senses power from the line the relay closes to pass through power and charge the battery. L1 and N will both pass through the inverter. L2 goes direct to panel with no change.

I understand what you mean. Might be best to call Victron and confirm. I don't think you will have any trouble.


Time2roll, just to be clear, that means L2 would go direct to the panel with no neutral and no ground going alongside it. Correct? This is exactly how I initially planned to wire it, but I've seen some suggestions that L2 needs its own neutral and grounds rather than relying on the neutral and ground coming out of the inverter.

In response to your other comment, I'll actually be putting one air conditioner on each leg in order to better balance the legs. We'll just remember not to turn on the air conditioner when not connected to shore power, or else burn through our batteries in about an hour.

Thanks again for your guidance.

joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 08:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

enblethen wrote:

The inverter constitutes a derived service and should follow the requirements of NEC Art 250-30.
How does the inverter instructions say about how to wire the system. I believe it will say not to connect them together!
I still say the easiest is to extend the one branch circuit to feed straight off inverter. No overcurrent protection required, no chance of back-feeding and very easy to do.


Enblethen, this would require creating a sub-panel that the inverter feeds into, right? Do you think that's easier than having the inverter feed into half (one leg) of the existing panel?

enblethen

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Posted: 10/10/19 09:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

No, there would be no sub-panel. The breaker in the inverter would act as one.
Yes, it would be much easier and safer!
What is make and model of the inverter you have in mind?

time2roll

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Posted: 10/10/19 11:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joe6789 wrote:

Time2roll, just to be clear, that means L2 would go direct to the panel with no neutral and no ground going alongside it. Correct? This is exactly how I initially planned to wire it, but I've seen some suggestions that L2 needs its own neutral and grounds rather than relying on the neutral and ground coming out of the inverter.
Not sure what you mean by "alongside".
L1,N,G take a detour though the inverter and continue to the main panel. I would assume as L1, N, G emerge from the inverter and continue to the main panel they would be physically alongside L2.


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joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 11:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

joe6789 wrote:

Time2roll, just to be clear, that means L2 would go direct to the panel with no neutral and no ground going alongside it. Correct? This is exactly how I initially planned to wire it, but I've seen some suggestions that L2 needs its own neutral and grounds rather than relying on the neutral and ground coming out of the inverter.
Not sure what you mean by "alongside".
L1,N,G take a detour though the inverter and continue to the main panel. I would assume as L1, N, G emerge from the inverter and continue to the main panel they would be physically alongside L2.


Sorry, by "alongside" I meant N and G literally taking the same path as L2 (not through inverter). Yes, eventually the N and G return from the inverter and would indeed be physically next to L2. However I've seen advice saying there should be separate N and G that do not detour through the inverter.

joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 11:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

enblethen wrote:

No, there would be no sub-panel. The breaker in the inverter would act as one.
Yes, it would be much easier and safer!
What is make and model of the inverter you have in mind?


I have the Victron MultiPlus Compact 2000 watt, which is a combined inverter and converter/charger.

Product page: https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva
Manual: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN.pdf

time2roll

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Posted: 10/11/19 09:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joe6789 wrote:

time2roll wrote:

joe6789 wrote:

Time2roll, just to be clear, that means L2 would go direct to the panel with no neutral and no ground going alongside it. Correct? This is exactly how I initially planned to wire it, but I've seen some suggestions that L2 needs its own neutral and grounds rather than relying on the neutral and ground coming out of the inverter.
Not sure what you mean by "alongside".
L1,N,G take a detour though the inverter and continue to the main panel. I would assume as L1, N, G emerge from the inverter and continue to the main panel they would be physically alongside L2.


Sorry, by "alongside" I meant N and G literally taking the same path as L2 (not through inverter). Yes, eventually the N and G return from the inverter and would indeed be physically next to L2. However I've seen advice saying there should be separate N and G that do not detour through the inverter.
Ground is not switched. Ground just passes through and can be branched off as many connections as you like.

I believe Neutral needs to be switched during inverter operation to prevent back feeding. If you have any 240v items the L2 would need to be switched also.

Best way might be to add a stand alone 50 amp transfer switch, basic Victron inverter, separate Victron battery charger. Not even sure you need Victron if you are not going to use the Mulitiplus power combining feature.

enblethen

Moses Lake, WA

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Posted: 10/11/19 09:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The manual shows in the block diagram a relay to prevent backfeeding into the 120 volt supply. Grounds can be connected straight through. The housing has an additional ground.
The manual says it has output overcurrent protection but is not shown in the block diagram.

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