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 > Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

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joe6789

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Posted: 10/16/19 11:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

Yes. This is same as we discussed earlier.
Single phase 120v will feed L1 & L2 and close the relay for normal operation on 30 amp service.


Thanks Time2roll. Let me follow up on something you said earlier:
"I believe Neutral needs to be switched during inverter operation to prevent back feeding"

How does that relate to the above diagram from Victron? Do you think an extra transfer switch needs to be added, or do you think the Multiplus will safely handle it on its own?

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Posted: 10/16/19 11:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

enblethen wrote:

The drawing is too vague! Yes, it shows coming from a main disconnect through the inverter to a distribution panel.
I still say the easiest is to run your one branch circuit from the distribution panel and run it to the inverter output. Yes, you would need to run a feed from the distribution panel to the 120 volt input to the inverter.


Enblethen, what do you mean by the Victron diagram being too vague? It seems to show exactly where all the four wires (L1, L2, N, G) need to be routed.

Can you please elaborate on your recommended setup? I'm not quite following whether your idea is the same thing I'm considering or something different.

enblethen

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Posted: 10/17/19 06:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The drawing does not identify where each of the devices are located.
1)Disconnect the wires(all) that are for the circuit going to the items you want to power off inverter.
2)Connect the inverter to the 120 volt panel in the same location. Phase conductor to the breaker, ground and neutral to their individual buss bars.
3)At the converter, connect the wires from the circuit breaker to the inverter input.
4) Connect the branch circuit to the inverter. This can be done using a cord body plugged into the inverter output.


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Posted: 10/17/19 08:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

enblethen wrote:

The drawing does not identify where each of the devices are located.
1)Disconnect the wires(all) that are for the circuit going to the items you want to power off inverter.
2)Connect the inverter to the 120 volt panel in the same location. Phase conductor to the breaker, ground and neutral to their individual buss bars.
3)At the converter, connect the wires from the circuit breaker to the inverter input.
4) Connect the branch circuit to the inverter. This can be done using a cord body plugged into the inverter output.
OK but my impression is that the OP plans to connect to half of the RV panel with no other wiring changes at the panel. So he'll manage all of the existing loads like the second A/C on the inverter circuit.

While I would rewire the panel and RV apparently the OP doesn't want to use this approach.


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joe6789

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Posted: 10/17/19 08:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CA Traveler wrote:

enblethen wrote:

The drawing does not identify where each of the devices are located.
1)Disconnect the wires(all) that are for the circuit going to the items you want to power off inverter.
2)Connect the inverter to the 120 volt panel in the same location. Phase conductor to the breaker, ground and neutral to their individual buss bars.
3)At the converter, connect the wires from the circuit breaker to the inverter input.
4) Connect the branch circuit to the inverter. This can be done using a cord body plugged into the inverter output.
OK but my impression is that the OP plans to connect to half of the RV panel with no other wiring changes at the panel. So he'll manage all of the existing loads like the second A/C on the inverter circuit.

While I would rewire the panel and RV apparently the OP doesn't want to use this approach.


Yes, that is my plan -- to basically not have to touch the panel and have the inverter power half of it (one of the two hot legs).

It happens that all the most important circuits I want to power from the inverter are already on the same leg: the TV, most of the outlets, and the microwave (though the 1500w microwave might be pushing it for my inverter, we'll see). There's also one air conditioner and a fireplace on that leg, but I'll just not turn those on when not connected to shore power. The only circuit on the opposite leg that would be nice to power with the inverter is the kids bedroom outlets, so I might swap that with the fireplace, which should be easy since they each have 15A circuit breakers. Also, one of the circuits is the existing converter, which I'll leave installed but flip that circuit off in the panel and put tape over it, so that it would only be turned on in case the Victron inverter/charger dies.

time2roll

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Posted: 10/17/19 08:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joe6789 wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Yes. This is same as we discussed earlier.
Single phase 120v will feed L1 & L2 and close the relay for normal operation on 30 amp service.


Thanks Time2roll. Let me follow up on something you said earlier:
"I believe Neutral needs to be switched during inverter operation to prevent back feeding"

How does that relate to the above diagram from Victron? Do you think an extra transfer switch needs to be added, or do you think the Multiplus will safely handle it on its own?
NO. My original comment was a reply on your suggestion to have two neutrals with one of the neutrals not going through the inverter. As shown in the diagram the single neutral goes through the inverter and all is good and properly switched.


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joe6789

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Posted: 10/18/19 07:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

NO. My original comment was a reply on your suggestion to have two neutrals with one of the neutrals not going through the inverter. As shown in the diagram the single neutral goes through the inverter and all is good and properly switched.


Excellent, thanks! I think I have enough consensus now to move forward with the installation, once I'm close to a hardware store to buy the supplies (currently traveling). Appreciate the input from everyone.

joe6789

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Posted: 10/21/19 11:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Follow up question:

There are two 50A circuit breakers that each hot leg currently passes through in the breaker panel. But with the upcoming MultiPlus inverter installation, one of the hot legs will route through the inverter before entering that 50A breaker.

Since that breaker comes after the inverter, I believe it is no longer sufficient. I believe I'll need to install one additional 50A breaker or fuse before the inverter.

Is that correct?

time2roll

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Posted: 10/21/19 11:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Pedestal has you covered.

joe6789

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Posted: 10/21/19 12:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

Pedestal has you covered.


True, though there are three things I'd potentially be worried about:

1) I've heard that some RV parks might have pedestal lacking the proper protections.
2) I'll occasionally be plugged into a generator. It's 3500W, which theoretically cannot output more than ~30A, but I've heard it can surge at certain times like when it's running out of gas.
3) There could be a short somewhere in the wires prior to the breaker panel, which would fry the inverter.

I'm less concerned about #1, because I have a Progressive Industries EMS that I plug into the pedestals which offers its own surge protection. And #2 doesn't seem like that large a risk. But #3 alone (a short circuit) seems to warrant the installation of another fuse or breaker prior to the inverter.

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