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 > Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

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enblethen

Moses Lake, WA

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Posted: 10/10/19 11:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Route the one circuit directly to the inverter and plug it into the inverter output receptacle.
Most inverters have a feed through circuit which would provide power through the inverter.


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joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 11:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

enblethen wrote:

The neutrals would be from different power sources and must be kept separate.
The inverter neutral should (shall) be grounded where the shore power connection cannot be grounded in the rig and must be complete separate.


Enblethen, thanks for the info. Another feature of the Multiplus is that it opens its ground relay when receiving shore power, thus relying on the shore power ground. And then when shore power is disconnected, the Multiplus uses its own ground to the rig. So it smartly switches between grounding in the rig and grounding through the shore power connection.

Does that change the thinking at all?

CA Traveler

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Posted: 10/10/19 01:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OP,

What you may be missing is that charger/inverters switch both the neutral and hot line and the output neutral and ground are bonded when inverting (only).

You will also need to split the neutral in the panel and run a 2nd neutral from the inverter output to the panel. And there may be other considerations.

As Mayer said it can be done but not recommended.


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enblethen

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Posted: 10/10/19 01:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You should not run the neutral from the inverter as they are floating in many cases and it "could" put current back into thew shore power cord.
Joe: it does not change anything in my mind. It must be kept separate.

time2roll

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Posted: 10/10/19 02:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joe6789 wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Multiplus is the Victron that combines power with a limited source to boost as needed right?

I don't see the circumstances in a 50 amp RV where this is a benefit. Are you plugging into 15 amp limited utility power? Are you trying to run a big RV with a single Honda 2200? Need to understand what you are attempting to accomplish.


Time2roll, you are correct. The Multiplus can supplement short power with inverted battery power simultaneously. However, I don't expect to need that feature. I will usually either be connected to 50A shore power or boondocking off batteries (with occasional generator use).

I bought the Multiplus because it is a combined inverter plus battery charger, has good quality and reputation, and was recommended for charging lithium batteries (which my existing converter can't do well).

I am looking for the simplest installation. It seems like splitting the existing breaker panel is easier than installing a subpanel, which would require finding a place for a whole new panel and extending a bunch of the circuit wiring. Most of the circuits I want to run off the inverter are already on the same leg in my existing box, so I thought it would be relatively simple to just run the one leg through the inverter and leave the other leg as-is.

But the fact that there's just one shared neutral wire for both hot legs is where I'm not sure what to do.

Thanks for the help!
Page 35 Appendix D shows the split phase installation. However you are just installing the single unit instead of two.

Diagram shows ground running through the unit also but it is not switched so the in/out are bonded. Appendix B

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/doc........anual-MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN.pdf


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joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 03:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

joe6789 wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Multiplus is the Victron that combines power with a limited source to boost as needed right?

I don't see the circumstances in a 50 amp RV where this is a benefit. Are you plugging into 15 amp limited utility power? Are you trying to run a big RV with a single Honda 2200? Need to understand what you are attempting to accomplish.


Time2roll, you are correct. The Multiplus can supplement short power with inverted battery power simultaneously. However, I don't expect to need that feature. I will usually either be connected to 50A shore power or boondocking off batteries (with occasional generator use).

I bought the Multiplus because it is a combined inverter plus battery charger, has good quality and reputation, and was recommended for charging lithium batteries (which my existing converter can't do well).

I am looking for the simplest installation. It seems like splitting the existing breaker panel is easier than installing a subpanel, which would require finding a place for a whole new panel and extending a bunch of the circuit wiring. Most of the circuits I want to run off the inverter are already on the same leg in my existing box, so I thought it would be relatively simple to just run the one leg through the inverter and leave the other leg as-is.

But the fact that there's just one shared neutral wire for both hot legs is where I'm not sure what to do.

Thanks for the help!
Page 35 Appendix D shows the split phase installation. However you are just installing the single unit instead of two.

Diagram shows ground running through the unit also but it is not switched so the in/out are bonded. Appendix B

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/doc........anual-MultiPlus-Compact-2000-120V-EN.pdf


Time2roll, thanks for digging into the MultiPlus manual. I did see that diagram earlier but I wasn't sure how to adapt it since I'm using only one inverter instead of two.

Can you please help me interpret how I would apply that diagram to my single-inverter setup? Let's say AC line 1 goes into the inverter and then out to the breaker panel. AC line 2 would have no inverter and go straight to the breaker panel.

In the diagram, the neutral is branched going into both inverters and then re-merged afterwards. Would I likewise need to branch the neutral wire, with one going through the inverter and the other going straight to the breaker panel? I've received some advice that the two neutral lines would have to be isolated, but in this diagram they are not, so I'm not sure what to believe there.

joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 03:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For reference, here's a snapshot of the official diagram for split phase wiring from the Victron Multiplus 2000 manual:
[image]
http://i.imgur.com/A1tWncz.png

joe6789

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Posted: 10/10/19 03:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CA Traveler wrote:

OP,

What you may be missing is that charger/inverters switch both the neutral and hot line and the output neutral and ground are bonded when inverting (only).

You will also need to split the neutral in the panel and run a 2nd neutral from the inverter output to the panel. And there may be other considerations.

As Mayer said it can be done but not recommended.


CA Traveler, thanks for your input. I also read your guidance in a similar post from a couple years ago.

Regarding the Jack Mayer instructions, it seemed like the only reason he recommended against splitting the load center was because transfer switches are often rated for only 30A. But the Victron MultiPlus transfer switch is 50A, so I don't think there's an issue. He also warns against having imbalanced legs, but this also won't be a concern for me. So are there other big reasons not to use the "splitting the load center" method? It seems so much easier than creating a new sub-panel.

Thanks for clarifying about the charger/inverters switching both hot and neutral, and the neutral/ground bond. It seems that these are both good things. What are the implications of that when doing the wiring?

time2roll

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Posted: 10/10/19 03:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joe6789 wrote:

I did see that diagram earlier but I wasn't sure how to adapt it since I'm using only one inverter instead of two.

Can you please help me interpret how I would apply that diagram to my single-inverter setup? Let's say AC line 1 goes into the inverter and then out to the breaker panel. AC line 2 would have no inverter and go straight to the breaker panel.

In the diagram, the neutral is branched going into both inverters and then re-merged afterwards. Would I likewise need to branch the neutral wire, with one going through the inverter and the other going straight to the breaker panel? I've received some advice that the two neutral lines would have to be isolated, but in this diagram they are not, so I'm not sure what to believe there.
The single neutral would go through the inverter. When the inverter senses power from the line the relay closes to pass through power and charge the battery. L1 and N will both pass through the inverter. L2 goes direct to panel with no change.

I understand what you mean. Might be best to call Victron and confirm. I don't think you will have any trouble.

time2roll

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Posted: 10/10/19 03:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I believe you will put 2 air conditioners and the electric water heater on L2 and the rest on L1 through the inverter. Possibly the fridge would be moved off a branch circuit onto L2. Disable the converter.

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