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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?

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time2roll

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Posted: 10/21/19 12:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There is no reduction in risk by adding a 2nd, 3rd or 10th circuit breaker in series.


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joe6789

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Posted: 10/21/19 01:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

There is no reduction in risk by adding a 2nd, 3rd or 10th circuit breaker in series.


What about when a short circuit occurs (and thus the breaker would no longer be in series)? Suppose there is a short in the wires before the breaker panel. In that case huge amounts of current could flow through the MultiPlus charger/inverter without tripping the breaker. If I add a fuse or additional breaker between the power source and the MultiPlus, then the Multiplus would be protected.

I'm not an expert but basing this off what I've learned online. Please let me know if that logic is wrong, or if the risk of the type of short circuit I'm describing is too low to warrant installing an additional breaker.

Thanks.

enblethen

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Posted: 10/21/19 01:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The 50 amp double pole breaker in the rig is a main breaker with the handles tied to gether.
If you are set on modifying the existing panel as stated, you would need to remove the existing double pole breaker and install one 50 amp single pole breakers to feed the primary buss. Then install a breaker in the second buss and back-feed into the buss from the inverter.


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time2roll

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Posted: 10/21/19 01:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If there is a short.... the pedestal breaker will open at the same speed as the added breaker.
No melted wires, no harm to the inverter.

If you are talking about inverted power... the inverter will cut power from the overload as part of the normal internal function.

Keep the wire placement clean and professional and you will have no issues.

joe6789

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Posted: 10/21/19 02:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

enblethen wrote:

The 50 amp double pole breaker in the rig is a main breaker with the handles tied to gether.
If you are set on modifying the existing panel as stated, you would need to remove the existing double pole breaker and install one 50 amp single pole breakers to feed the primary buss. Then install a breaker in the second buss and back-feed into the buss from the inverter.


Why is it necessary to have two single pole breakers rather than using the existing double pole breaker? Seems like I should be able to run both lines into the existing double pole breaker, one of which routes through the inverter first.

joe6789

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Posted: 10/21/19 02:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

If there is a short.... the pedestal breaker will open at the same speed as the added breaker.
No melted wires, no harm to the inverter.

If you are talking about inverted power... the inverter will cut power from the overload as part of the normal internal function.

Keep the wire placement clean and professional and you will have no issues.


Thanks, that sounds nice and simple!

enblethen

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Posted: 10/21/19 02:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The shore power cords both legs are connected to the 50 amp main breaker. Yes, you could disconnect the second leg, tape it up. I do not remember what size breaker your inverter wants to feed it. I am guessing something like a 20 amp.

joe6789

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Posted: 11/03/19 05:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm back with a follow-up question, this time about the DC side.

I'm seeing my DC voltage drop to 1 or 2 volts when I've hooked up both the Victron inverter/charger and the DC loads, with all AC wiring completely disconnected. Specifically, positive terminal of battery has one wire going to the inverter/charger positive and one wire going to the positive bus bar, while similarly the negative terminal of the battery has one wire to the inverter/charger negative and one wire to the negative bus bar. Neither the inverter/charger nor the DC loads function when both are connected, since 1 to 2 volts is too low.

Battery is fully charged. I see 13V when I disconnect the inverter/charger and only connect the DC loads (e.g. lights). Likewise, I see 13V when I disconnect the DC loads and only connect the inverter/charger. But when BOTH the DC loads and inverter/charger are connected, the voltage across the positive and negative sides drops to 1 to 2 volts.

Any ideas what's wrong?

I'm thinking it's related the inverter being grounded to chassis and the negative bus bar for the DC loads also being grounded to chassis. Note I have not yet hooked up any AC wiring to the inverter/charger, so the issue must be contained on the DC side.

Again, would appreciate if others with more experience could chime in.

time2roll

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Posted: 11/03/19 05:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dropping 1 or 2 volts is too much for no load. Dropping to 1 or 2 volts is a defective battery or open connection. Where exactly are you measuring the voltage? Inverter should pull no more than 2 amps at idle that might show 0.1 volt drop in battery voltage.

joe6789

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Posted: 11/03/19 06:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

dropping 1 or 2 volts is too much for no load. Dropping to 1 or 2 volts is a defective battery or open connection. Where exactly are you measuring the voltage? Inverter should pull no more than 2 amps at idle that might show 0.1 volt drop in battery voltage.


Yes, I believe it's some sort of open connection, possibly between the ground of the inverter and the ground of the DC load bus bar.

When only the inverter is hooked to the battery, the battery stays at ~13 volts and 0.7 amps are drawn by the inverter at idle.

The problem is only when I hook up both the inverter and the normal DC loads -- then the voltage essentially drops to 0. I'm measuring voltage between the positive and negative terminal of the battery. As soon as I hook all the cables up, the multimeter actually shows about 6 volts, but then a second later drops to 5 volts, and continues dropping to 4 volts, 3 volts... and settles at 1 or 2 volts after about 10 seconds.

If I disconnect the inverter or disconnect the DC loads, the battery voltage jumps back up to 13 volts and everything functions normally.

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