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Open Roads Forum  >  RV Parks, Campgrounds and Attractions

 > Push to privatize National Park Service campgrounds

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GeoBoy

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Posted: 10/12/19 07:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Why do we fund foreign governments but are unwilling to fund our national treasures?[emoticon]

agesilaus

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Posted: 10/12/19 07:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

There is a multi park vendor who does this sort of thing. He takes over State and Federal park campgrounds. He runs them, maintains them, improves them and still pays the state or Federal agency a fee for doing so. And he does not raise the fees and still makes a profit. He runs the Coyote Blog That link to his Park Privatization pages, where he explains how he does it. He hires many workcampers. Let me warn the delicate among us that is is a strong Libertarian and while I agree with his economic views his other views I don't. The other side of the fence will reverse that.

So it can be done, some of the parks he manages are on the top ten Arizona Parks list. So he improves parks and does not convert them to "Disney lands'

I just spotted this:

"I was asked to write a 400-word essay for an outdoor magazine on “should national parks be privatized”. Here my response. By the way, I put the stuff about myself and my company in under duress. It was not in the original draft and he wanted something personal.

Should National Park’s be privatized, in the sense that they are turned entirely over to private owners? No. Public lands are in public hands for a reason — the public wants the government, not, say, Ritz-Carlton, to decide the use and character and access to the land. No one wants a McDonald’s in front of Old Faithful, a common fear I hear time and again when privatization is mentioned.

However, once the agency determines the character of and facilities on the land, should their operation (as opposed to their ownership) be privatized? Sure. The NPS faces hundreds of millions of dollars in capital needs and deferred maintenance. It is crazy to use its limited budget to have Federal civil service employees cleaning bathrooms and manning the gatehouse, when private companies have proven they can do a quality job so much less expensively. The US Forest Service, for example, has had private operators in over a thousand of its largest parks for nearly thirty years, and unlike state parks agencies or even the NPS, it is not considering park closures or accumulating deferred maintenance, despite having its recreation budget axed. Why? Because its partnership program with private operators is a fundamentally sounder, lower-cost approach to park operations."
Read the rest here

And that example of Yellowstone, that is one NPS park that has privatized their campgrounds for years.

* This post was edited 10/12/19 07:59am by agesilaus *


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Bert Ackerman

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Posted: 10/12/19 08:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bob806 wrote:

IMHO our government could send more $$ to the NPS. Perhaps raise our fees slightly for usage, but leave the senior discounts in place.We could debate where to cut elsewhere so the NPS could be properly funded, but I'm sure we can all agree we need these parks properly maintained for our enjoyment.


So basically raise fees and make cuts but do so at the expense of some other demographic group?

I don't get the senior discount thing and never have despite being of the age I can get it at different places. So what if I've paid taxes for X number of years. If I can afford to pull a TT or drive a MH thousands of miles to a NP, I can afford to pay the standard price. The same with my breakfast, dinner, or anything else.

gbopp

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Posted: 10/12/19 08:17am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bert Ackerman wrote:

I don't get the senior discount thing and never have despite being of the age I can get it at different places.

If you're given a discount for something because of your age, do you demand to pay full price?

goducks10

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Posted: 10/12/19 08:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

gbopp wrote:

Bert Ackerman wrote:

I don't get the senior discount thing and never have despite being of the age I can get it at different places.

If you're given a discount for something because of your age, do you demand to pay full price?


x2

Terryallan

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Posted: 10/12/19 08:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bert Ackerman wrote:

gemsworld wrote:



Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”




A good idea that makes a lot of sense. Why do seniors get a %50 discount to begin with, or a discount at all.


for the same reason seniors get their SS, their Medicare. We have paid for it since we were in high school. Then when we turned 62 1/2 we bought Senior Passes. Passes that allow us to get a discount. Have you ever bought a season ticket / pass? that is what our senior Pass does for us.
Those National Parks don't pay for themselves. Fee only make a small amount of what it takes to run them. They are paid for with our taxes. Taxes we have been paying for 45 to 60 years. I have been camping in NP CGs for nearly 45 years. I have been paying full price for nearly 45 years. Now I intend to enjoy one of the small perks of being old. Shoot dude. it's only $10.00 to 12.00 per night. Not going to break the treasury.

So yes. We have earned a discount. and when you reach senior age. You will be able to get one as well.


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goducks10

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Posted: 10/12/19 08:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

Bert Ackerman wrote:

gemsworld wrote:



Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”




A good idea that makes a lot of sense. Why do seniors get a %50 discount to begin with, or a discount at all.


I suppose the theory is that:
1) They've paid taxes for 45+ year
2) They theoretically have lower incomes
3) They vote in very high numbers and are quite vindictive towards politicians that take away some benefit. They are also very loud while being vindictive.

Number three is obviously the most important from the political viewpoint.


I'm still paying Fed taxes on SS and my Pension.
Yes I do have a lower income.
x2 on 3.

FWIW We hardly go to NP.s But we do do a lot of FS camping where we get 50% off.

donut dave

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Posted: 10/12/19 09:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

badlands national park already does this at cedar pass campground.
$37 per night and no discount with senior card.

Horsedoc

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Posted: 10/12/19 09:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you guys have ever been there, check out a ride thru the GSMNP from Cherokee to Gatlinburg. There is no fees. In fact there is no fee anywhere here.
I would not object to a fee to use the park, say $10 per vehicle. It certainly would help their budget out and be a lot shorter than going up 76 and I-40 to get to Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge.

Naio

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Posted: 10/12/19 10:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

agesilaus wrote:

There is a multi park vendor who does this sort of thing. He takes over State and Federal park campgrounds. He runs them, maintains them, improves them and still pays the state or Federal agency a fee for doing so. And he does not raise the fees and still makes a profit. He runs the Coyote Blog That link to his Park Privatization pages, where he explains how he does it. He hires many workcampers.


It seems the logical solution would be to allow the park service to have workcampers. Are there laws against that, maybe labor rights laws?

On a level playing field, government provided services are always cheaper than privately provided services. Both have the same base costs, but the private service has an additional cost, which is the profit to the owner.

But often the playing field is not level, as in this example where the private owner has a large amount of work done by people who are basically volunteers.


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