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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton

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Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

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Posted: 10/24/19 02:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

I know there will be people who come back and disagree but when you get 10-15yrs out, don't count on getting a $10k premium on resale for a diesel.

Last couple times we were shopping, there was little if any premium at that price point.
Many people view a gas truck with 150K miles as worn out. A diesel with that milage is viewed as broken in.

And as far as years go... I have been updating my trucks at about 10 years. The diesel premium has been there for me.
My present truck was 57K out the door in 2010.
I am getting 31K for it now. That works out to 2600 a year.Or 216 a month. That works for me.



Huntindog
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2011 Silverado CC DA big dually.



sgfrye

north carolina

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Posted: 10/24/19 06:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3/4 ton gasser pick one you like the best of the 3 big 3

ShinerBock

SATX

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Posted: 10/24/19 06:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

mich800 wrote:

IdaD wrote:

An HD truck in OP's scenario is a no brainer. It's literally more truck for the same money, and it not only works better for the current trailer but also allows for more flexibility moving forward - and the compromises in moving from a 1/2 ton to a SRW HD are minimal. I think the compromises involved in moving from a SRW HD to a dually are much more significant.


I wouldn't say it is a no brainer. Everyone has a list of priority items. If a 1/2 ton that falls into the category of towing trailer and meets the other criteria better than a larger truck why should they make a purchase that falls short in the other areas.

And I don't subscribe to the mantra here to over purchase as you may upgrade later. If that is the case everyone would purchase a 4+ bedroom home as their first house because who knows if you will have kids or the parents/in-laws need to move in later. And switching trucks is surely easier than switching houses.
Houses appreciate. Trucks depreciate.
Big difference.


While this is true, unless you paid cash, you are still likely to loose your anus because you are paying nothing but interest for the first 10 years which puts you in the negative in the grand scheme of things.
That would only be true, if you had a free place to live for those 10 years.
For us mortals, a house payment took/takes the place of a rent payment.


Same goes with a truck payment unless you get that for free.
I am about to buy my 5th truck. None of them had payments.... Point is, it is possible for many to get in that position, if they manage their finances early on.

It is MUCH more difficult to do this with a house.

At any rate, if you make payments on both a house and a truck, you will pay interest on each. The house payment is a better financial move. Houses generally increase in value. Trucks generally decrease.

The house I am in now has more than quadrupled, since 1991 when I bought it. For most of that time, the payments were less than rent.
That makes the interest I paid a moot point. That is what apreciation does

If I were to have made truck payments on 5 trucks over that same time period.... I would not have much to show for it. In fact for much of that time, I would likely have been upside down. That is what depreciation does


I am talking short term. On a $200k financed home with a 5% interest(which is a good rate and the average was 9% in 1991), you will pay $99k in interest in 10 years of ownership on top of tens of thousands in taxes that you wouldn't pay if you rent. Umm, The interest rate I started with is not the one I ended with. I refinanced (no cash out) as soon as it made sense to do so. My final rate was 3.5% for a 15 year loan. In fact, one time early on because of my aggresive prepayments, I was able to refinance into a home equity loan which happened to have a lower rate but with a higher equity requirement! The best move to make when interest rates are high, is to prepay as much as possible and avoid much of the interest.. Also, when you rent, you DO pay property taxes! It is built into the rent payment! A lot of otherwise smart people don't realize this. With inflation over the course of 10 years it will be much higher. Over the total course of the 30 year loan you will pay over $186K in interest. Again, it will be much higher in 30 years when accounting for inflation.

With inflation, $100k in 1991 is equivalent to $188k now so much of your home value did not necessarily go up. It is just a dollar is worth less now. So if you calculate for inflation, taxes paid, and interest paid, your home value would have to quadruple at the end of the 30 year note just for you to break even.

So if you financed a $100k house in 1991 at the average 9% interest, you would have paid $189k in interest. Add that to the $100k you paid and you get $289k total not including taxes. With inflation, that is the equivalent of $544k from 1991 to now. So even quadrupling the houses value will still not put you ahead.This makes no sense at all. Your loan balance does not increase with inflation. Inflation with a home loan is your friend. You pay the loan off with cheaper dollars.

I am pretty much done here. It is a rare person that will make an financial argument against home ownership....

As always, your money, your choice.


I am not making an argument against home ownership. Just because I am stating facts and numbers about something doesn't mean I am against it. I am just saying that many people don't come out on the plus side or as much on the plus side as they think when they do the math and account for all things.

A 3.5% interest rate is unheard of before 2012..
Interest rates by year
Historical home interest rates

The inflation is on the money spent on the loan and interest. The value of that will decrease and it will take more of it to buy stuff. You also have to account for the cost on money and so on.

* This post was last edited 10/24/19 07:17am by ShinerBock *   View edit history

ls1mike

Bremerton

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Posted: 10/24/19 07:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

Many people view a gas truck with 150K miles as worn out. A diesel with that milage is viewed as broken in.



What people? Do you have a Facebook page? I will just talk GM here but over at the GMT 800 board which is HUGE compared to this place 150,000 is just broken in on an LS based gasser. There are threads every week about high mileage gassers. You should take a look if you get a chance. This isn't 1960. I am not saying a gasser will out last a diesel but there are literally 10's of thousands of 4.8, 5.3 and 6.0 trucks with well over 250,000 miles on them putting in work everyday on the original engine and transmission.
They have a running thread for gas trucks with over 500,000 miles on them and its a pretty good size list.


Mike
2017 Chevy 3500HD 6.0 Crew Cab Long bed
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deltabravo

Spokane, WA

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Posted: 10/24/19 07:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

A diesel with that milage is viewed as broken in.

And as far as years go... I have been updating my trucks at about 10 years. The diesel premium has been there for me.


I've had my current truck 10 years. Sadly, it doesn't get driven much. I'd like a new truck to get all the new technology features, but it hardly makes sense to buy a new one when my current 10 year old truck only has 62k miles on it. I'm not one of those old retired guys that sits around home and doesn't travel. I still work full time, and the truck simply isn't my daily driver.

If I won the lottery, I'd buy a GMC. The new Chevy HD trucks are a hideous looking mess


2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2009 Arctic Fox 811 (bought new 11/9/09)
2015 Nash 17k (bought pre-owned 5/23/18)
2008 Haulmark 8.5x20 toy box trailer

smarty

new mexico

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Posted: 10/24/19 08:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3/4 ton, safer and piece of mind

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 10/24/19 09:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

I know there will be people who come back and disagree but when you get 10-15yrs out, don't count on getting a $10k premium on resale for a diesel.

Last couple times we were shopping, there was little if any premium at that price point.


The difference in salvage value is still directly related to the condition and miles of the vehicle. 15 years old, rusted out and 300k miles, you're correct, neither truck is worth schitt.
10 years old, 150k miles, assuming both in identical great condition, you are 100% wrong. Heck, even NADA puts the diesel at $7500 more apples to apples and the real world prices support this.
Which if I'm not mistaken, is as much or more than the diesel upgrade cost 10 years ago.

If there was little or no price premium where you shop, there are 3 possible reasons for that.
1. You're not comparing even close to apples to apples.
2. You WANT a gasser and some salesmen were blowing smoke up your skirt and you liked it.
3. Your full of _it.


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

wing_zealot

East of the Mississippi

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Posted: 10/24/19 11:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Here is what the professionals say about the cost of ownership gas vs. diesel.
Clicky

ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/24/19 12:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wing_zealot wrote:

Here is what the professionals say about the cost of ownership gas vs. diesel.
Clicky


We used to use Vicentric data for our 500+ pickup truck fleet until we bought the software and tools to do it ourselves because their data was off by a considerable margin. The main reason why is because Vicentric uses the last 5 months of fuel prices(which it tells you in your link) which happen to be the winter months where the spread between diesel and gas fuel prices is the largest. By as much as $.60 compared to less than $.30 in the summer months. Our data used a rolling 13 months of fuel prices and was more accurate to actual costs of our units.

* This post was last edited 10/24/19 01:14pm by ShinerBock *   View edit history

time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 10/24/19 12:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cavie wrote:

1/2 ton and 7500# yea it will work......in the low country. If you intend to do any kind of mts you will need a 3/4. You wanna be comfortable or on the edge of your seat all the time. Do you want to pass a very slow moving semi or play follow the leader? The choice is yours.
I am fine with follow the leader but usually I am passing very slow semis. The old 260hp 5.4 still does just fine. And yes I have been up and over 11,000'.


2001 F150 SuperCrew
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