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 > Brake fluid change?

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JimK-NY

NY

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Posted: 11/09/19 09:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Some people still change oil at 3000 miles. As with the needless and wasteful oil changes, it would be nice to have some actual data.

road-runner

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Posted: 11/09/19 11:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have a little bit of data. In the days before I did brake fluid changes I had a few seal failures in master and wheel cylinders. Since going to fluid changes I've had no seal failures. The oldest vehicle is 26 years with about a quarter million miles. The 2nd oldest vehicle is pretty young, at 11 years. As much as I'd like to change the fluid every 2 years, in actuality it's every 3 or 4. The initial discharge from the calipers or wheel cylinders is always dirty, which I've unscientifically assumed is debris from the seals.


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jjrbus

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Posted: 11/10/19 01:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Interesting topic. Remembering my father oiling the carburetor linkage and such and being overly concerned about maintenance when young I am embarrassed by how seldom I look under the hood on my newer vehicles. Yes I remember honing out cylinders.

So I took a look, I see no reference to brake fluid change on my 2011 Honda fit and have went over 10,000 miles before the computer told me to change oil. I am sure that if I went to the Honda dealer they would insist that they recommend changing the fluid, but would be unable to provide a technical service bulletin from Honda.

My 94 Toyota Sea Breeze RV manual makes no reference to changing brake fluid. The Toyota truck manual, not an RV manual. Although when I bought it with no service records I did change all fluids, doing a diy flush and fill on the transmission and replaced brake fluid. Seemed like the sensible thing to do.

mapguy

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Posted: 11/10/19 09:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JimK-NY wrote:

Would you send an email along with documentation to the Dodge Ram technical people? They did not include that recommendation.


Why would I bother. I understand the function of the "Owners Manual" maintenance schedules in bigger picture of vehicle or machinery ownership.It is clear many don't.

Real world experience in commercial vehicles, construction equipment, powersports, motorsports and of course RV's has shown me that "Owners Manual" maintenance requirements are the minimum needed to meet Warranty requirements. These maintenance schedules are not developed for insuring your vehicle is going to have maximum life with minimal lifetime ownership cost.

In my experience power steering fluids and brake fluids are very rarely addressed in Owners Manuals maintenance schedules especially in the Automotive industry.

JimK-NY

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Posted: 11/10/19 09:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mapguy wrote:

...

Real world experience in commercial vehicles, construction equipment, powersports, motorsports and of course RV's has shown me that "Owners Manual" maintenance requirements are the minimum needed to meet Warranty requirements. ......


Again, where is the data? I also doubt that maintenance schedules are just a minimum needed for warranty purposes. Dealers want the manufacturers to provide extensive requirements.

mapguy

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Posted: 11/10/19 10:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JimK-NY wrote:

mapguy wrote:

...

Real world experience in commercial vehicles, construction equipment, powersports, motorsports and of course RV's has shown me that "Owners Manual" maintenance requirements are the minimum needed to meet Warranty requirements. ......


Again, where is the data? I also doubt that maintenance schedules are just a minimum needed for warranty purposes. Dealers want the manufacturers to provide extensive requirements.


Interesting that you focus on only one point in a response.You are focused on one point, not the big picture of vehicle safety and lifetime ownership costs.

My data is in the file cabinets and computers of the firms I worked at over a 35 year mechanic/Fleet Management career. Data is available from many resources besides the OEM manufacturer in all the business segments named. If hard data is what you need - where is yours to support your position. You have only attacked the real world knowledge that is trying to help educate people.

Bottom line here is safety and that is being ignored for the most part in this thread.

No, I don't change my oil @ 3k....

BTW, my current 2nd career revolves around the usage, storage, and analysis of location data.

JimK-NY

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Posted: 11/10/19 11:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mapguy wrote:

...

My data is in the file cabinets and computers of the firms I worked at over a 35 year mechanic/Fleet Management career. Data is available from many resources besides the OEM manufacturer in all the business segments named. If hard data is what you need - where is yours to support your position. You have only attacked the real world knowledge that is trying to help educate people.

Bottom line here is safety and that is being ignored for the most part in this thread.
.....

So according to your "data" maintenance schedules from manufacturers are insufficient both for routine service and also for safety. Let us forget the analysis. What are your recommendations for overall maintenance requirements?

mapguy

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Posted: 11/10/19 12:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JimK-NY wrote:

mapguy wrote:

...

My data is in the file cabinets and computers of the firms I worked at over a 35 year mechanic/Fleet Management career. Data is available from many resources besides the OEM manufacturer in all the business segments named. If hard data is what you need - where is yours to support your position. You have only attacked the real world knowledge that is trying to help educate people.

Bottom line here is safety and that is being ignored for the most part in this thread.
.....

So according to your "data" maintenance schedules from manufacturers are insufficient both for routine service and also for safety. Let us forget the analysis. What are your recommendations for overall maintenance requirements?


Sorry, I am done. Glad you "won"

DrewE

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Posted: 11/10/19 01:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jjrbus wrote:


So I took a look, I see no reference to brake fluid change on my 2011 Honda fit and have went over 10,000 miles before the computer told me to change oil. I am sure that if I went to the Honda dealer they would insist that they recommend changing the fluid, but would be unable to provide a technical service bulletin from Honda.


My 2012 Honda Fit manual does say this (in the section about the Maintenance Minder display and Maintenance Service Items):

"Independent of the Maintenance Minder information, replace the brake fluid every 3 years." That isn't listed in the index under brake fluid or similar obvious headings. I would be very surprised if that was added in 2012 since the changes in the chassis systems between those two years were very minimal.





road-runner

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Posted: 11/10/19 07:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DrewE wrote:


"Independent of the Maintenance Minder information, replace the brake fluid every 3 years."
2009 Honda Fit manual says the same thing, except it's "information display" in place of "information". Sprinter maintenance schedule says brake fluid change every 2 years.

As far as some manuals not calling for brake fluid change, there's a similar situation with Audi and BMW automatic transmission fluid going back more than 10 years. They both say it's lifetime fluid, and the transmission is "sealed for life". Audi dealers refuse to change the ATF. The transmission manufacturers on the other hand have a recommended change interval, and it's totally accepted in the enthusiast communities that the lifetime fluid is what limits the lifetime of the transmission.

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