RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: 2012 6.7 Diesel

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 2012 6.7 Diesel

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 4  
Prev
Sponsored By:
Bionic Man

Colorado

Senior Member

Joined: 04/03/2009

View Profile



Posted: 11/05/19 04:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lenr wrote:

Not positive but I believe that Canadian fuel has a higher lubricity standard than US fuel, which might explain a lower HPFP failure rate up North. However, something North of 99.94% of the 6.7s in the US also have no fuel pump problems with many of those with a failure being traced back to contaminated fuel.


Where does the 99.94% come from? Proof source?


2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010

lenr

Indianapolis, IN

Senior Member

Joined: 04/12/2008

View Profile



Posted: 11/06/19 06:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When the CP4 failure rate first popped up from 2011 to 2013 there was some formal and maybe a review by National Safety folks. The Ford actual CP4 failure rate was 6 out of 10,000 with plenty of those being water, ethanol, DEF, or gasoline in the fuel, which is not the fault of Ford (or Bosch). I suspect as the motor and fuel industries have learned about the sensitivities, that the failure rate has gone down. Yes, it sucks if it happens to you, but the odds are low. I use Ford fuel treatment and try to buy from high volume stations to lower my personal risk.

lenr

Indianapolis, IN

Senior Member

Joined: 04/12/2008

View Profile



Posted: 11/06/19 12:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In my experience if you ask an Amish man a question, the most likely answer will be "it depends." So, while I'm not Amish, my answer to the OP's original question of how many miles is "it depends." It depends on condition, price, and confidence of good maintenance. I prefer to buy new because I know how a vehicle has been cared for as it gets old. My 2012 6.7 has 116,000 mi., with no out of warranty problems except a plugged EGR. It tows our 12,500 lb. fifth wheel just great. I may routinely replace the fuel pump somewhere between 150K and 200K--won't know until that time comes, but I do expect to keep trucking. A HPFP job should be around a $1000 at a reasonably priced shop--less then 2 payments on a new truck. And, if doing that I would have the S&S bypass kit installed.

A lot of the urban legend hype around the HPFP failures resulted from the cost of repair. When the pump goes it throws metal into the injectors ruining them. Repair (on line) seems to run from $9,000 to $15,000 depending on who's telling the story. Yet, I know of a small town Ford dealer that has done them for less than $5,000. The S&S kit eliminates the injector risk, but the labor to get it installed isn't free (read fuel pump is buried.) I don't know why Ford, Cummins, and Bosch don't incorporate a bypass, but I'm sure they have a reason. Everyone does know, don't they, that Cummins now uses the CP4. Cummins is pretty conservative--doubt that they would switch without some confidence in it. And, Ford now puts the 6.7 in their F650 trucks with a 10% breakdown rating of 500,000 miles and a 250,000 mile warranty--can't be all bad, but if you buy used, you take a chance.

klr650goldwing

minnesota

Senior Member

Joined: 01/20/2010

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 11/08/19 04:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks, everyone. I enjoyed reading all of your comments. However, I was hoping to learn about diesel engines so I could feel more comfortable using and maintaining them. Well, I did learn more than I expected and now, I don't even want a diesel. I'll stick with my problem-free V10 gas and just go slow on the hills.


2014 Grand Design Solitude 369RL
2004 F350, V10, CC, LB, 4X4, 456
2012 Mercedes E550
2010 Honda Civic
2009 Saab 93 Aero Convertible
2004 Honda Goldwing GL1800
2004 Kawasaki KLR650
1966 Honda 305 Dream

Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

Senior Member

Joined: 04/08/2002

View Profile



Posted: 11/08/19 05:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

lenr wrote:

When the CP4 failure rate first popped up from 2011 to 2013 there was some formal and maybe a review by National Safety folks. The Ford actual CP4 failure rate was 6 out of 10,000 with plenty of those being water, ethanol, DEF, or gasoline in the fuel, which is not the fault of Ford (or Bosch). I suspect as the motor and fuel industries have learned about the sensitivities, that the failure rate has gone down. Yes, it sucks if it happens to you, but the odds are low. I use Ford fuel treatment and try to buy from high volume stations to lower my personal risk.
I had the actual documents back in that time period. That was a couple of crashed computers ago, so I no longer have them.

But as I recall Ford had a failure rate about 1/2 of GMs. Ford was in the 2 per 10,000 range and GM was in the 4 range.

That did not jibe with what was being reported on the forums back then... At that time, there had not been a single GM report of a CP4 failure.... But there were a number of reports on Fords... Many of them being denied warranty.

I dug into those reports, and have idea why there was the discrepancy in the NHSTA reports and what was being reported on the forums.

It seems that the NHSTA only documents warranty claim failures. And since Ford was denying a good number of claims, then those claims would not be included in Fords failure rate.
GM was quitely fixing their failures under warranty, but their NHSTA failure rate was higher as a result... In reality, both brands likely had similar rates, though the Ford forums did have a number of reports of DEF mistakenly being put in the diesel tank.... It is likely that some of those people tried to get Ford to warranty this.... It is doubtful that many suceeded at that as Ford had a very strict protocol on how to check for DEF diesel contamination. So overall, I doubt that had much of an impact on the rate.



Huntindog
100% boondocking
2010 Palomino Sabre 30 BHDS
84 gal. Grey. 84 gal. Black
2 bathrooms, no waiting
2011 Silverado CC DA big dually.



FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

Senior Member

Joined: 02/12/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 11/08/19 06:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

lenr wrote:

When the CP4 failure rate first popped up from 2011 to 2013 there was some formal and maybe a review by National Safety folks. The Ford actual CP4 failure rate was 6 out of 10,000 with plenty of those being water, ethanol, DEF, or gasoline in the fuel, which is not the fault of Ford (or Bosch). I suspect as the motor and fuel industries have learned about the sensitivities, that the failure rate has gone down. Yes, it sucks if it happens to you, but the odds are low. I use Ford fuel treatment and try to buy from high volume stations to lower my personal risk.
I had the actual documents back in that time period. That was a couple of crashed computers ago, so I no longer have them.

But as I recall Ford had a failure rate about 1/2 of GMs. Ford was in the 2 per 10,000 range and GM was in the 4 range.

That did not jibe with what was being reported on the forums back then... At that time, there had not been a single GM report of a CP4 failure.... But there were a number of reports on Fords... Many of them being denied warranty.

I dug into those reports, and have idea why there was the discrepancy in the NHSTA reports and what was being reported on the forums.

It seems that the NHSTA only documents warranty claim failures. And since Ford was denying a good number of claims, then those claims would not be included in Fords failure rate.
GM was quitely fixing their failures under warranty, but their NHSTA failure rate was higher as a result... In reality, both brands likely had similar rates, though the Ford forums did have a number of reports of DEF mistakenly being put in the diesel tank.... It is likely that some of those people tried to get Ford to warranty this.... It is doubtful that many suceeded at that as Ford had a very strict protocol on how to check for DEF diesel contamination. So overall, I doubt that had much of an impact on the rate.


We now know that the CP4 doesn't tolerate air in the fuel so with GM skimping out on a lift pump it's very believable their failure rate was higher.


'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
"Built Ford Proud"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"


4x4ord

Alberta

Senior Member

Joined: 12/23/2010

View Profile



Posted: 11/09/19 02:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I know from experience that the CP4 pump isn't as fragile as some people believe it to be. Shortly after buying my 2011 6.7 I filled it with gasoline. I noticed it pinging and ended up pulling into a freinds place a few miles further down the road where I pumped the contents of my tank into his gasoline pickup and my wife's car. I did this by simply attaching a hose to the hose bringing fuel to the engine mounted fuel filter and turning the ignition to the on position. (It would pump for a few seconds then stop so I had to continue to cycle the ignition key on and off) After emptying the tank I filled my truck with diesel and carried on. About a year later I abcent mindedly put DEF into the fuel tank. This time I caught my mistake before starting the engine and I pumped the tank dry the same way and carried on. If I had towed my truck to a Ford dealer they would have charged me to replace the entire low pressure side of the fuel system on account of the def and the entire fuel system on account of the gasoline. In my case it cost me nothing. Additionally I ran that truck out of fuel on at least one occasion. I ran that truck to over 100,000 miles before selling it and never had a problem with it.

* This post was edited 11/09/19 03:01am by 4x4ord *


2017 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
B&W Companion
2008 Citation Platinum XL 34.5

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

Senior Member

Joined: 02/12/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 11/09/19 10:17am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

There are also many fanboys here who do not like to tell the truth because it makes their favorite brand look bad. They are usually easy to spot because they will focus only on the bad of other brands and refuse to believe there is anything bad with their favorite brand. They also usually exaggerate numbers so take what they say with a grain of salt just as you would with a fanboy of an opposing brand.


LOL.... I overlooked this one. And the fanboys who now say it's ok that their favorite brand now has a CP4.2 pump and that it's now a good pump and all is well.... LOL

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 4  
Prev

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 2012 6.7 Diesel
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:

© 2019 CWI, Inc. © 2019 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved. | Terms of Use | PRIVACY POLICY | YOUR PRIVACY RIGHTS