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ScottG

Bothell Wa.

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Posted: 11/22/19 09:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Jack_Diane_Freedom wrote:

I would think that the RV park would have to charge you extra for charging up your EV if they would allow it at all.


We always ask. Explain how much energy it will take and at what rate. We haven't been charged yet but then again, it hasn't come up that often really. Typically we would charge 10 to 15 kw overnight in our car. Pretty small. We always offer 5 bucks which allows a healthy profit.


Depending on where they are located, commoercial rates (which can be twice what residential rate are) could cost them more than $5.


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Posted: 11/22/19 09:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ScottG wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Jack_Diane_Freedom wrote:

I would think that the RV park would have to charge you extra for charging up your EV if they would allow it at all.


We always ask. Explain how much energy it will take and at what rate. We haven't been charged yet but then again, it hasn't come up that often really. Typically we would charge 10 to 15 kw overnight in our car. Pretty small. We always offer 5 bucks which allows a healthy profit.


Depending on where they are located, commoercial rates (which can be twice what residential rate are) could cost them more than $5.


Could be. That’s why we leave it up to them. Bigger cars have bigger batteries so I suspect most campgrounds would charge for charging a bigger car. Eventually the easiest way to do it would be to either install a networked metered EVSE that one can pay by RFID or credit card or keep it low tech and just meter a 14-50’plug.

time2roll

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Posted: 11/22/19 11:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The equipment install would probably never pay for itself. Just a customer convenience to increase general occupancy. Like having a pool and not charging a separate use fee.


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JRscooby

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Posted: 11/23/19 05:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Does it hurt a electric motor to spin it with no power to it? I can't see how, as long as the speed was in the motor's operating range. Now changing speed of that spinning mass might take more power. Would need to compare weights, armatures of the motor to the axles+driveshaft+extra power needed because spinning driveshaft so much faster. Friction, the motor would no doubt be less.
Unless there is some kind of lube system that needs to be driven from something besides the spinning motor, I can see no mechanical issue in towing a E car 4 down. (The issue with most cars is the if the engine is not spinning, the pump doesn't lubricate the bearings in transmission)
Now if you are towing 4 down, it would be simple to use regenerative braking to get to the CG with fully charged battery. More of a issue might be the battery fully charged early in the day, now you can't get regen braking.
If you moved often enough, like every 2 weeks, and in the course of that 2 weeks did not drive the toad more than it's between charge range, would not need to charge in a CG. And for the people that use E cars, what percentage off the time do you get home with near full discharge, and need full charge in the morning? Would get to CG at say 50%, and have 75% in the morning work?

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Posted: 11/23/19 06:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

Does it hurt a electric motor to spin it with no power to it? I can't see how, as long as the speed was in the motor's operating range. Now changing speed of that spinning mass might take more power. Would need to compare weights, armatures of the motor to the axles+driveshaft+extra power needed because spinning driveshaft so much faster. Friction, the motor would no doubt be less.
Unless there is some kind of lube system that needs to be driven from something besides the spinning motor, I can see no mechanical issue in towing a E car 4 down. (The issue with most cars is the if the engine is not spinning, the pump doesn't lubricate the bearings in transmission)
Now if you are towing 4 down, it would be simple to use regenerative braking to get to the CG with fully charged battery. More of a issue might be the battery fully charged early in the day, now you can't get regen braking.
If you moved often enough, like every 2 weeks, and in the course of that 2 weeks did not drive the toad more than it's between charge range, would not need to charge in a CG. And for the people that use E cars, what percentage off the time do you get home with near full discharge, and need full charge in the morning? Would get to CG at say 50%, and have 75% in the morning work?


Well, the technical stuff is way beyond my knowledge level. From the point of view of voiding the warranty we don’t tow either of our EV’s four down. We do one on a trailer and the other on a dolly we change out cars every 5 or 6 years so we’ll always be in that situation. Both our cars have neutral’ free spin modes. That would probably be the simplest 4 down tow method. I don’t really see the need to charge while towing. Electricity is readily available in most places. It hasn’t been a problem for us.

JRscooby

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Posted: 11/23/19 07:33am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Does it hurt a electric motor to spin it with no power to it? I can't see how, as long as the speed was in the motor's operating range. Now changing speed of that spinning mass might take more power. Would need to compare weights, armatures of the motor to the axles+driveshaft+extra power needed because spinning driveshaft so much faster. Friction, the motor would no doubt be less.
Unless there is some kind of lube system that needs to be driven from something besides the spinning motor, I can see no mechanical issue in towing a E car 4 down. (The issue with most cars is the if the engine is not spinning, the pump doesn't lubricate the bearings in transmission)
Now if you are towing 4 down, it would be simple to use regenerative braking to get to the CG with fully charged battery. More of a issue might be the battery fully charged early in the day, now you can't get regen braking.
If you moved often enough, like every 2 weeks, and in the course of that 2 weeks did not drive the toad more than it's between charge range, would not need to charge in a CG. And for the people that use E cars, what percentage off the time do you get home with near full discharge, and need full charge in the morning? Would get to CG at say 50%, and have 75% in the morning work?


Well, the technical stuff is way beyond my knowledge level. From the point of view of voiding the warranty we don’t tow either of our EV’s four down. We do one on a trailer and the other on a dolly we change out cars every 5 or 6 years so we’ll always be in that situation. Both our cars have neutral’ free spin modes. That would probably be the simplest 4 down tow method. I don’t really see the need to charge while towing. Electricity is readily available in most places. It hasn’t been a problem for us.


Well, AFAIK, I have never seen a electric powered car. So on the "technical stuff" I'm guessing, based on what I know about other things. (When I was a kid the windmill would spin a motor and pump water from pond to stock tank. Over flow drained back to pond. If the tank was low when came out to feed, slide collar to disengage shaft from windmill, and switch on motor. Feed, tank full, shut off power, engage the shaft.) My "guess" about only needing to add some charge, not total recharge over night is based on the number of times I get to CG with less than half tank, then use car again next day without putting gas in.
Another guess; As more people buy E cars, a small percentage of the buyers will ask about flat towing. And as the numbers grow I think the manufacturers will look at the idea. If there is no issue that I don't see, I bet the warranty restrictions will go away. And I bet that happens long before RVs are towed to CG by E power on a regular bases.

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Posted: 11/23/19 07:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

Reisender wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Does it hurt a electric motor to spin it with no power to it? I can't see how, as long as the speed was in the motor's operating range. Now changing speed of that spinning mass might take more power. Would need to compare weights, armatures of the motor to the axles+driveshaft+extra power needed because spinning driveshaft so much faster. Friction, the motor would no doubt be less.
Unless there is some kind of lube system that needs to be driven from something besides the spinning motor, I can see no mechanical issue in towing a E car 4 down. (The issue with most cars is the if the engine is not spinning, the pump doesn't lubricate the bearings in transmission)
Now if you are towing 4 down, it would be simple to use regenerative braking to get to the CG with fully charged battery. More of a issue might be the battery fully charged early in the day, now you can't get regen braking.
If you moved often enough, like every 2 weeks, and in the course of that 2 weeks did not drive the toad more than it's between charge range, would not need to charge in a CG. And for the people that use E cars, what percentage off the time do you get home with near full discharge, and need full charge in the morning? Would get to CG at say 50%, and have 75% in the morning work?


Well, the technical stuff is way beyond my knowledge level. From the point of view of voiding the warranty we don’t tow either of our EV’s four down. We do one on a trailer and the other on a dolly we change out cars every 5 or 6 years so we’ll always be in that situation. Both our cars have neutral’ free spin modes. That would probably be the simplest 4 down tow method. I don’t really see the need to charge while towing. Electricity is readily available in most places. It hasn’t been a problem for us.


Well, AFAIK, I have never seen a electric powered car. So on the "technical stuff" I'm guessing, based on what I know about other things. (When I was a kid the windmill would spin a motor and pump water from pond to stock tank. Over flow drained back to pond. If the tank was low when came out to feed, slide collar to disengage shaft from windmill, and switch on motor. Feed, tank full, shut off power, engage the shaft.) My "guess" about only needing to add some charge, not total recharge over night is based on the number of times I get to CG with less than half tank, then use car again next day without putting gas in.
Another guess; As more people buy E cars, a small percentage of the buyers will ask about flat towing. And as the numbers grow I think the manufacturers will look at the idea. If there is no issue that I don't see, I bet the warranty restrictions will go away. And I bet that happens long before RVs are towed to CG by E power on a regular bases.


Yah I would think you are right. It’s not a big market but within the next 20 years the sale of gas powered vehicles will be outlawed in many countries, states or provinces. Even though it’s a small market the need will be there and some manufacturer will figure it out. I don’t know about the US states but the last day you can buy a non zero emmision vehicle in BC or Quebec is December 31st 2039. BC already has over 10 percent of its vehicle sales as electric. A target they hit 5 years early.

joebedford

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Posted: 11/23/19 08:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ida thunk that with regenerative braking, the EV could charge itself as you drag it down the road. Hey maybe I'll patent that idea.

naturist

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Posted: 11/23/19 08:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:


Well, AFAIK, I have never seen a electric powered car.


Oh, unless you’ve been hiding in the basement for the last few years, you have seen them. They just haven’t caught your attention. My bride bought a used plugin Prius a few months ago. It’s a 2012 MY and only goes 11 miles on pure electric, before switching itself to “regular” hybrid mode, but I started seeing Tesla’s out here in the middle of nowhere years before Tesla was able to legally sell cars in this state.

The previous owner of that Prius sold it to us to buy a Tesla. Everybody knows about the service intervals on IC cars. The first scheduled maintenance on that Tesla is at 25,000 miles, the next at 50,000. And the first is just to makes sure everything is as it should be, thus free/warranty work. Think about that a bit.

The nearest Tesla Supercharger is about 60 miles. The new Tesla owner charges it via a 240 volt 50 amp at home. Just like you find at most campgrounds. In fact, I came across a YouTube video of a guy making a cross country road trip in a Tesla, and the official Tesla recommendation for such trips where a Tesla supercharger isn’t to be found is to get a space at a campground but spend the night at a nearby hotel if you haven’t a tent and fancy camping.





JRscooby

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Posted: 11/23/19 09:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

naturist wrote:


Oh, unless you’ve been hiding in the basement for the last few years, you have seen them. They just haven’t caught your attention.


LOL You likely right. Are car built before,'60, I will notice. '60 to mid '70s, I might notice. Later then that? Not unless it might hit me. Now I have noticed some charging stations.
But the point I was trying to make is I'm not a politician, I want everybody to know when I know, and when I'm speculating.

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