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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Honda 2000I versus Cpe 2000 inverter

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MrWizard

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Posted: 11/25/19 04:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I just weigh a Honda with full gas tank

53.2#

Also weigh my cpe 2000 with full gas tank

55.6#

I cannot tell the difference by lifting them

For practical purposes they are the same height and length
But width/thickness is differing

With the Honda being slimmer/Less deep

Which makes it a little easier to carry
And maybe make a difference in storage for some people

Yes the Honda is less loud with my 75 amp converter than my champ
The Honda is also several years newer than my champ
And the owner does not work it as hard as work my champ
He still has the stock oem converter in his 96 Minnie winnie

Will try for a noise comparison powering the MW, if I have the time this evening, before he retrieves it

* This post was edited 11/26/19 01:41am by MrWizard *


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ScottG

Bothell Wa.

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Posted: 11/25/19 04:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think the difference is the Honda can surge better. It can put out twice it's rated power for short periods and can start items with massive startup currents better than anything. Even better than Yamaha's of same rating.


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H0NDA eu2000i

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 11/25/19 04:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have the same 75 amp converter and it maxes my B&S P2200 when doing 75 amps pulling 1700VA from the gen according to the Kill-A-Watt. In fact the gen has its red overload light flashing at the time (means it will quit altogether if you add any more load)

Once amps taper to 68 amps, the red overload light stops flashing and turns steady green. Gen still sounds the same though, running full out till amps taper some more.

The Honda 2000 is rated at 1600VA, which ought to mean it would not be able to run the 75 amper at 75 which takes 1700 at 14.x batt volts. So there must be some "margin" there in the Honda. I am not familiar with the Cpe gen.

IMO to compare the two gens with the "same" load, you should use the Kill-A-Watt to confirm VAs.

The VA pulled by the 75 amper depends first on the output watts at the battery so EG, 75 amps at 13v will be less than 75 amps at 14v, so peak draw will be at peak output watts when Vabs is reached and just before amps start to taper. So even if the 75 amper is doing 75 amps in both cases, that does not necessarily mean the same draw on the gens.

Since getting output watts the same with the converter is hard to arrange for a test, the Kill-A-Watt on the input side would be easier to compare with.


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MrWizard

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Posted: 11/25/19 07:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My champ gets a work out everyday with that converter
I am well aware of the load into and the amps charging

The mw is less load than the converter
But I can do a cup of water with each one just to check load and sound, and have as equal a test as you can get with generators that have different peak voltage

Also I have a meter/test box much better than a kill-a-watt
One that shows amps volts and watts all at the same time
And the watts display can be cycled to show the COSIGN AKA Power Factor
One constructed to be used with generators or shore power, 20 amp or 30 amp plug in

I saw that Honda do 1967.xx (122.8v × 16.xx amps) computed VA while showing almost 1500 (1465.x) watts on the watt display with a PF of 0.745

I have seen similar numbers when testing the champ

This was not meant to prove one better than the other
Just an unusual chance to make some quick observations

One thing I really like about this champ is
It will trip the circuit breaker instead of doing an inverter over load, which means I do Not have to do a generator shut down restart cycle, no the champ will not start my AC

* This post was edited 11/25/19 07:35pm by MrWizard *

BFL13

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Posted: 11/25/19 08:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

That is interesting about the Honda doing 16a (AC) for however long. It is rated at 13.3 continuous ISTR. I wonder how long it can run at higher than rating.

In some scenarios that might be enough to run a higher amp converter that needs more than 13a doing a Bulk stage, if the Bulk stage isn't too long before the gen drops back to rating. Once Absorption stage starts, with the amps tapering, the demand on the gen falls off, so it could be all about the timing.

My B&S P2200 is rated at 1700 "running" and when I went over that, it immediately did the red light overload and shut down. So no margin above the "running" rating except maybe a "surge" time in seconds. So the Honda being able to stay running at over its 1600 is noteworthy.

Lwiddis

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Posted: 11/25/19 09:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Interesting discussion.


Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2020 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, 300 watts solar-parallel & MPPT, Trojan T-125s. TALL pole for flags. Prefer USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, USF&WS, state & county camps. Bicyclist! 14 year Army vet - 11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560)


72cougarxr7

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Posted: 11/26/19 05:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wonder how the new smaller size Champion 2000 inverter compares size and weight wise?

bikendan

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Posted: 11/26/19 12:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

72cougarxr7 wrote:

I wonder how the new smaller size Champion 2000 inverter compares size and weight wise?


It's lighter and just saw a Tractor Supply Black Friday ad, where they have it on sale for $379.


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MrWizard

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Posted: 11/26/19 10:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Some interesting numbers I saw early today "Honda"
115.5v 17.03 amps = 1966.965 computed VA, PF 0.781



123.9v 16.89 amps = 2092.671 computed VA,
Watts 1538.6 , computed PF 0.735232
[image]
[image]Click For Full-Size Image.





122.9v. 12.3 amps = computed VA 1511.67

Present number this minutes, Using the Champ 2000 inverter genny
Yes been running for several hours, did not get start up numbers, but not super high, only around 33 charge amps less than one half generator load

123.3v 2.14 amps computed VA 263.862

[image]

Watts reading 170.4, PF reading 0.649

Dc power meter charging rate reading

14.56v 3.34 amps 49.6 watts

[image]

So the VA of 263.84 results in a 49.6w charge rate

What we need are power Factor corrected converters that are more efficient

The converter is using 170w (from 263VA) to provide 49 watt charge

It does better (more efficient) at higher amps, but this could stand lots of improvement

I have some pix, just need to get them upload and posted

Will edit this post, when pix are uploaded

* This post was last edited 11/29/19 01:33am by MrWizard *   View edit history

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 11/26/19 11:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Mr Wiz can you review the Honda figures?

The V and A figures don't seem to match for loading. EG, when using my old Honda 3000, it was 126.8V unloaded, but with loads I got:

122.7/15.57 with the 100 amper at 102a
123.8/13.64 with the 75 amper at 75
124.7/11.06 with the 55 amper at 56.8
125.4/8.4 with the VEC 40 amper at 40.4

So you see a consistent rise in loaded voltage with less load. The Honda 2000 figures posted seem to jump around.

I got 0.73PF with the 75 amper and 0.97 with the PF corrected 100 amper. The VEC 40 was 0.64 I don't have PFs for when at lower amps.

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