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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Can my truck tow this?

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discovery4us

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Posted: 12/03/19 02:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

twodownzero wrote:

"Axle shafts and bearings are no bigger today than they were 30 years ago. I'm not sure what year 3/4 ton Chevy you're talking about, and whether we're talking about a 6 or 8 lug 3/4 ton, but it is very likely that is not the case. GCWR might have increased because engines have more power than ever, but that simply does not tell the whole story about the vehicle's capability."


2004 Chevy 2500 Payload 3000 lbs. towing 10,300 lbs. 8 lug
2015 Ford F150 Payload 2800 lbs. towing 11,800 lbs.


I agree with the axle shafts and bearings being the same. But with the evolution of engines and multi gear transmissions towing capabilities of 1/2 ton trucks like the OP have gone way up. Likewise the capabilities of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks have gone up. My 1984 Ford F250 Diesel couldn't even hold a candle to my 2005 Ford F250.

I think the OP combination might be a little long and a little heavy on the tongue weight but the fact that he is asking probable means that he will approach the first tow with caution and will make adjustments from the advice received here as well as from the experiences gained from towing.

I also agree with Dutchmen's concerns about doubt but if I shied away from everything I doubted I would have missed a lot of good experiences. Heek I wouldn't have had all these wonderful years with my DW. [emoticon][emoticon][emoticon]

PA12DRVR

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Posted: 12/03/19 02:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

LanceRKeys wrote:

Hitch up and go. You’ll know after a few tanks of fuel if it will tow it or not. You’ve already spent the money, go enjoy it. If you find you truck isn’t quite up to the task, get a bigger truck, no big deal.



I would say that this largely captures it ^^^^^.

If that doesn't capture it, then go (as slow as you can / want to) to the nearest CAT scale and get the truck/trailer combination weighed in an as-loaded for camping condition.

Check the weights against the published GVWR/GCVWR/Tongue numbers (plus whatever other numbers might apply). If the weights are over, only the OP can decide how much over is acceptable or not.

If I were starting from a blank sheet of paper, I like to be well within the numbers. Life doesn't always deliver a blank sheet of paper so I've done what LanceRKeys suggested and used the "numbers don't add up" combo to whatever degree I felt was safely in control for the drive.

FWIW, I would look at LT tires and double check the hitch rating (as printed on your receive).....


CRL
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blt2ski

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Posted: 12/03/19 04:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've spent many years and miles towing things heavier than rated for. Some cases, the lower rated truck was by far better than the higher rated truck. Assume both comparisons have the same chassis. Different motors, trans, some cases rear end ratio.
Where and how you tow will also make or break you. All freeway in Florida, way the heck different than here in Puget sound foothills on some city and county streets.
Just my 02 on subject!
Marty


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00 Chev C2500, V5700, 4L80E, 4.10, base truck, no options!
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

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Grit dog

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Posted: 12/03/19 04:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Terryallan wrote:



Wonder why the engineers give the lower gears a higher tow package??? Just saying.


Of course they do, but the difference between the "highway geears" and the "towing gears" is ....wait for it, 3.23s vs 3.42s.
And on the OP's truck, you're right, the max trailer package ups the tow rating to like 11,400 from 9,700, same 8 speed trans. How much of that is gears and how much is other "stuff" who knows, most of it likely, but who cares. He's within the rating for his truck anyway if he's careful ( I can't account for bringing the Traeger, a motorcycle, the fat mother in law and a rock collection....different story)

And not over the hitch rating 1250lbs for a "conventional" hitch.

Yes it's at the upper end of what that truck will want to pull, but again, the question was "can my truck tow this?" and the answer is yes with what we know about the trailer.

Would I rather have deeper gears? He!! yes! Give me 4.10s with the 10 speed geared to still run about 2000rpms at about 80 mph in top gear.
Would I rather have a 3/4ton L5P Dmax that would literally pull the guts out of the trailer and accelerate uphill without dropping a gear? You betcha too.
But again, is the truck suitable? Yup, towed with one of them. Ripped a 10klb+ trailer over the Cascades and back a couple times.
Never had trouble exceeding the speed limit on I 90 or US 12, or stopping. (FWIW, I don't weigh, I work. As long as it aint on the bump stops, I'll typically run it. But I know the skid steer was 6-7klbs + a sweeper attachment on a 24' deckover that weighs 4klb+ empty and I had a 5k Honda in the truck bed along with a cross box full of tools and a 50gal fuel cube. Actually the 2019 was a loaner, so no tool box and fuel cube, but that's standard gear on my 2016 that does the same duty.)

And while we're at it, the "weak Chebbie trailer hitch" is a great argument, IF he had one of them old purportedly bad hitches, but not a dang thing to do with this discussion.
Besides, do any of y'all believe that the "mfg rating" is anywhere near the ragged edge of the component? If you do, go live with the lawyers and leave us real folks to to our own business.

AND if this is all really over a trailer receiver, about $200 will get you a real beefy Curt or Superhitch so you can sleep at night.

* This post was edited 12/03/19 04:18pm by Grit dog *


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

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Posted: 12/03/19 05:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

twodownzero wrote:



Uh, no I didn't. It's simple arithmetic. GCWR - GVWR = 8k pounds. It's in the specs for the vehicle.

And .2 lower gear ratio magically gives it 2000lbs more gcwr, but whos counting. Also payload considers 2 - 150lb passengers PRIOR to deducting anything from payload number and the heaviest publihsed curb weight is just over 5klbs, 5008 lbs, for the highest zooted RST 6.2L 10 speed. Granted the 5.3 crew cab is probably still 4700lbs easy.





Oooh, good one. What percentage of full size pickups come with gears that high? Does Ford even offer a 3.23 on an F-150? Even within GM sales numbers or on a dealer's lot, what percentage of trucks do you think come with 3.23 gears? I bet it's not many.




Ooooh, you're speculating again... This aint about F150s, but you're absolutely right, they don't offer a 3.23 gear truck. But they do have 3.15s, 3.31s, 3.55s and 3.73s.
And the GM twins only have 2. The little motors and the 5.3s with the old 6 speeds get 3.42s, as do the max trailer package 5.3 8 speeds and max trailer 6.2 10 speeds. The bulk of the trucks are the 5.3 8 speed trucks with 3.23s and the 6.2 non max tow also get 3.23s.
I've been looking at them. Hard to get a 3.42 with the bigger engines = high $ trim packages that come with the high $ engines and trans.
But whatever.




Where you get the gear reduction is a big deal for the transmission if you want it to last. I'm sure rebuilding that 8 speed transmission isn't cheap.



I will agree 100% that the rear axles haven't gotten basically any stronger or beefier on the GMs. Ford offers a heavier duty rear semi floater in the half tons.
But, in the million miles plus I've put on mostly half tons working them as construction trucks and the equivalent 10s of millions of miles on the same trucks doing the same stuff, just for the companies I've worked for, AND the millions of trucks passed on the road over the course of years, I'm not sure I've seen 1 single newer 1/2 ton pickup with a busted rear axle and can only think of maybe a few that have needed rebuilt, ever.

So aside from you penchant for spewing the mfgs ratings.
How many real world incidents have you experienced or seen that you attribute to (not driver error, not road conditions, not a blowout from a nail, screw, cactus thorn, beer bottle or some other road hazard) being at, near or slightly over some published rating?


The best part of these discussions is getting insight into how others think.

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Posted: 12/03/19 05:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Towing is lower on their mandate from managment...higher requirement is Corporate MPG...even fractions of a MPG is more important to them

Plus, towing metrics is very low on the bean counter management requirements


-Ben Picture of my rig
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Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
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Posted: 12/03/19 07:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DutchmenSport wrote:

If you had to ask the question in he first place, well??? probably not!

This really is the crux of most discussions on this topic. They almost always are started by someone who isn't sure, and is looking for reassurance from unknown individuals on the internet. Typically the answers end up close to 50/50, and the individual asking the question can glean a piece or two of information that will either (a) justify what they are doing, or (b) justify the need for the proper tool (ie a new truck) to do the job.

One can always find the justification they need for either decision, they just have to wait for the right post, or combination of posts that they can then say "see honey, this guy here who has been on this forum for 15 years says I need a new truck, so obviously he is very knowledgeable and must be right". Or, "see honey, we can buy that trailer we want and don't have to upgrade the truck, because the guy with 15 years of experience said so".

Not everyone is born with the knowledge, so research is necessary. I believe the best approach is to do your own research, and ask questions as necessary to clarify your knowledge. That's what I did when I started getting into RVing. I did probably a years worth of research and had multiple conversations with a friend who has much more experience than I did, and used all resources available to me... not just asking "hey, can I tow this", and relying on the answer I wanted to hear.

Just sayin...

Mike


Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
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Posted: 12/03/19 10:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Terryallan wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

Quote:

I'm skeptical what the "tow package" includes if your truck has 3.23 gears, by the way. A hitch receiver is not a "tow package."


Get your head out of the 1970's. The days of 3-speed transmissions and needing 4.10 gears to tow an empty wheelbarrow are long gone. This truck has an 8-speed transmission with a super deep first gear, and well spaced gears between there and the double overdrive.

Where you get the gear reduction is irrelevant, as long as you have it available. 3.23 is a perfectly fine towing gear.


Wonder why the engineers give the lower gears a higher tow package??? Just saying.


His last sentence covers the answer. If he's within the tow ratings of the truck it doesn't matter where the overall gear ratio comes from.

But if he is exceeding the truck ratings, that suggests the necessary gearing is not "available" and the only way to get that without upgrading the engine or chassis is a lower rear end gear.

Now of course, those ratings are assuming fairly tough conditions (climbing a steep grade in hot conditions), so if you are running on flat land, you may be able to cheat and get away with it but this is a different issue.


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patperry2766

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Posted: 12/04/19 01:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BenK wrote:

Towing is lower on their mandate from managment...higher requirement is Corporate MPG...even fractions of a MPG is more important to them

Plus, towing metrics is very low on the bean counter management requirements


It's not only corporate, it the fed govt. It's called CAFE (Corporate Ave Fuel Economy) and the govt sets a fleet wide average for all cars, SUV's and 1/2T trucks. 3/4 and above are exempt for now.

Basically for 2021, the CAFE for manufacturers is 40.3-41 MPG, and if you can't meet it, then you have hefty fines to pay to Uncle Sam. F,C,D are gonna have a hard time making that since they've basically abandoned the car business and concentrating manufacturing efforts on SUV's and trucks.

https://www.transportation.gov/mission/sustainability/corporate-average-fuel-economy-cafe-standards


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Posted: 12/04/19 05:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

patperry2766 wrote:



It's not only corporate, it the fed govt. It's called CAFE (Corporate Ave Fuel Economy) and the govt sets a fleet wide average for all cars, SUV's and 1/2T trucks. 3/4 and above are exempt for now.

Basically for 2021, the CAFE for manufacturers is 40.3-41 MPG, and if you can't meet it, then you have hefty fines to pay to Uncle Sam. F,C,D are gonna have a hard time making that since they've basically abandoned the car business and concentrating manufacturing efforts on SUV's and trucks.

https://www.transportation.gov/mission/sustainability/corporate-average-fuel-economy-cafe-standards


I thought the reasoning behind the CAFE standard was to cause the companies to sell high efficiency vehicles cheap enough to speed up the replacement of older less efficient vehicles. What people are willing to pay for pickups would help pay for replacing junkers. But once again we prove history my not repeat, but it sure does rhyme.

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