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 > California Non-commercial class A license ***New question***

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AirSupport

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Posted: 12/14/19 10:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

AirSupport wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

"Dodge 3500 4x4 crew cab dually that has a GVWR of 14,000lbs"

No such thing!

I found that number on the Dodge truck website after clicking “build your truck.” I out all the option I wanted on it as far as engine, bed length rear axle (dually) and driveline. It clearly came up with “GVWR 14,000.”

Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but I’ve done it several times and it’s always the same.


There is no such thing as a DODGE that's rated at 14k. I "think the 2012 DRW Dodge trucks were GVWR 12,500 or so pounds. Someone please correct me.

Now there are RAM's that are rated at 14k. DODGE trucks Legally died at the end of the 2012 model year. 2013 model year is when they Legally became RAM with 14k GVWR.


I go to the Dodge.com website and click the “Ram Trucks” button. “Dodge,” “Dodge Ram,” or just “Ram,” and we all know that it’s the same darn thing. It’s just a marketing play on words.

Carl n Susan

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Posted: 12/14/19 10:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks 94-D2! Not to quibble, but the CA definition of a Pickup is:

Pickup (CVC §471)—A pickup is a motor truck with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and equipped with an open box-type bed less than nine feet in length. California Code of Regulations, Title 13 §150.04 further defines pickup trucks:
(Reference https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch13/ch13_3)

One kicker which CA has ignored is that most 3/4 or 1 ton pickups, especially Fords, have a unladen weight greater than 8K lbs.

The specification of a "open box-type bed" means flatbeds and utility bed vehicles are *NOT* pickups.

It then follows that anyone, including stock duallies, are required by law to stop at CA weigh stations. But doing so puts your life in danger from real truckers and the scale operators.

laknox

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Posted: 12/14/19 11:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

94-D2 wrote:

What you say is true. However, I would and have written the ticket, placed out of service and impounded vehicles for irresponsible drivers doing it (not all since every case is different and may mitigating circumstances). It is the responsibility of the driver to know what is required when they are driving it. Don’t not do it (obtain the appropriate license) because you don’t like the answer or your afraid of it. Obtaining a class A license is a big deal and not easy. It’s is that way for a reason. The reason it is ambiguous for Leo’s and DMV personnel is because it is obscure and out of the norm for the other 26,000,000 licensed drivers in the state.

The 5th wheel endorsement is not an endorsement in DMV language. That is part of the confusion in asking for it. It is a restriction on a class C license in endorsement clothing, so to speak. To be clear, any class C operator needs the 5th wheel restriction on their class C license if towing a 5th wheel RV between 10,000 and 15,000 lbs. anyone towing a 5th wheel RV OVER 15,000 lbs or a travel trailer over 10,000 lbs must have at least a non commercial class A.

And, for anyone using an Anderson ball conversion, Class A if over 10,000 lbs. why, because of the adapter. It is no longer a 5th wheel connection and you loose the exception. Is every street cop goi g to know this.....nope but I do and therefore those I work with do too. So why chance it.


AZ also treats the Andersen as a ball hitch, so safety chains are required. Same if you use a GN adapter on a FW.

Lyle


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laknox

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Posted: 12/14/19 11:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

discovery4us wrote:

I have operated many different variations of Recreational Vehicle combinations over the years and have always done what I could to make sure I was within regulations. Most of it is easily interpreted but some areas are clear as mud.

I have personally accompanied people to the CA DMV on five occasions for their non commercial class A driving test and only once did the DMV ask if they had a properly classed driver with them. I recommend having them with you just in case they do ask.

My research showed the only time one needed to be concerned with GCWR was if you were a farmer or farm employee. One does need to be concerned with GVWR and more importantly the GVWR of the trailer. Over 15,000 lbs. on the FW and you definitely need the non commercial class A.

I agree with the statement made about getting a class A and being done but unless your truck is registered as a motor truck or tractor truck and not a pickup truck I don't think the CA DMV will let you get anything higher than a non commercial license. I don't remember the exact weight to get reclassified but it is probably somewhere in the 12,500 lbs. range and the DMV fees will be noticeable higher and you may even need to put the CA numbers on the side of the truck.


Farmers can get away with a =lot= by claiming "implement of husbandry", but it's slowly being eroded, and for good cause. I know that our farm manager in Porterville had one of his guys get pulled over a 2nd time for towing a trailer with a forklift on it that put him > 26k combined. Cop knows the owner and all his guys, so let him off, but said that a 3rd time =would= get a ticket.

Lyle

laknox

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Posted: 12/14/19 11:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So, here's a fly to toss in the ointment. If you're a CA resident and want to get the non-com'l Class A, can you have your buddy from AZ drive your rig to CA DMV, even though he doesn't have the non-com'l Class A, since it's not required here?

Lyle

94-D2

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Posted: 12/14/19 12:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

laknox wrote:

So, here's a fly to toss in the ointment. If you're a CA resident and want to get the non-com'l Class A, can you have your buddy from AZ drive your rig to CA DMV, even though he doesn't have the non-com'l Class A, since it's not required here?

Lyle


I don’t think reciprocity extends to your CA buddy’s rig in CA. ???????


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AirSupport

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Posted: 12/14/19 12:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

laknox wrote:

So, here's a fly to toss in the ointment. If you're a CA resident and want to get the non-com'l Class A, can you have your buddy from AZ drive your rig to CA DMV, even though he doesn't have the non-com'l Class A, since it's not required here?

Lyle


That’s a good question. Not a lawyer here but since Cali recognizes vehicle code reciprocity from other out of state “residents,” I’d say it’s legal. As long as your buddy has a valid AZ drivers license and is a current “resident” of AZ, just visiting down here.

Only problem is, trying to convince a Cali DMV employee that you’re all legal with your AZ pseudo-class A driver present with you. As others stated, many dmv employees don’t know the technical side of some laws.

ol Bombero-JC

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Posted: 12/15/19 01:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

94-D2 wrote:



The 5th wheel endorsement is not an endorsement in DMV language. That is part of the confusion in asking for it. It is a restriction on a class C license in endorsement clothing, so to speak. To be clear, any class C operator needs the 5th wheel restriction on their class C license if towing a 5th wheel RV between 10,000 and 15,000 lbs. anyone towing a 5th wheel RV OVER 15,000 lbs or a travel trailer over 10,000 lbs must have at least a non commercial class A.



DMV "so to speak":

The Class C is not restricted. You have a Non-Commercial Class A which is restricted.

Reverse side of Class C DL:

Quoted exactly, bold print is mine:

CLASS: Class C & M1-Veh w/GVWR <26000; No A; 2 whl M/C, Mtr-drvn Cycle, Scooter
ENDORSEMENTS: None
RESTRICTIONS: 41-Class A restricted to operating 5th wheel travel trailer between 10,000 and 15,000 lbs GVWR

End quote.

Yes - when Restriction 41 test and licensing came into play - the DMV folks would attempt to have you take a Non-commercial Class A exam (rather that the 25 Q for the 41), or a MH exam - - upon successful completion of testing, the person issuing a temp license actually tried to issue me a "standard" Non-Commercial Class A license - until I explained what he *should* issue.

That resulted in him tearing up the one he had already printed, and with help from another employee - he got it done correctly.

Yeah - should have kept my mouth quiet - and brought in the Doctor's Certificate he requested. (Never said a word about the/a driving portion!)

~

ol Bombero-JC

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Posted: 12/15/19 01:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Carl n Susan wrote:

Thanks 94-D2! Not to quibble, but the CA definition of a Pickup is:

Pickup (CVC §471)—A pickup is a motor truck with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and equipped with an open box-type bed less than nine feet in length. California Code of Regulations, Title 13 §150.04 further defines pickup trucks:
(Reference https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch13/ch13_3)

One kicker which CA has ignored is that most 3/4 or 1 ton pickups, especially Fords, have a unladen weight greater than 8K lbs.

The specification of a "open box-type bed" means flatbeds and utility bed vehicles are *NOT* pickups.

It then follows that anyone, including stock duallies, are required by law to stop at CA weigh stations. But doing so puts your life in danger from real truckers and the scale operators.


No need to quibble, the definitions (etc.) are all in this Caltrans link, as well as "Discussions" - which may(?)clear things up...[emoticon]

Link:

Scroll down to: "Do These Vehicles Have To Stop At The Scales?"

Life in danger - "from real truckers and the scale operators"..[emoticon]

~

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 12/15/19 06:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

I would like to hear from someone that actually have been cited for not having proper license to haul heavy in CA.


Still waiting...........


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