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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > F450 vs F350 SRW payload

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NRALIFR

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Posted: 12/29/19 12:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if comercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k. Come to think of it I actually only know of one F450 pickup owner. I've got a nephew that bought one to haul his ego around with. Is the F450 an F350 with the wide track front axle? Is it anymore capable than the F350?


Are you under the mistaken belief that the F450 pickup is just a 450 cab and chassis with a pickup bed? It isn’t. Between the back of the cab and the rear bumper, the frames are completely different. Commercial buyers aren’t going to buy the F450 pickups.

Who’s buying them? I’ve bought two. First a 2010, and now the 2016 in my sig, and you can see what I’m doing with it. The 2010 actually had a 14.5K gvwr, making it a “just barely” class 4 truck. But, I think that ultimately caused some problems for some buyers with licensing, registration, and insurance. I believe it also could have created a situation for Ford where the F450 pickup was reducing sales of the 450 cab and chassis. Corporations usually try to avoid having one product line compete with another.

Comparing the F450 pickup to the F350 pickup, at least in the 2008-2010, and the 2014-2016 model years, they were undeniably more capable. The 2011 through about 2013 F450 pickups were (IIRC) just rebadged F350’s, and I’m not quite as familiar with the current model years. But, even if you include the F350’s that had the wide track front axle (which isn’t available for the F350 any longer) the F450 pickup axles were rated higher by the axle manufacturer. The brakes were also bigger, and the trucks came with 19.5” tires. Those were all desirable to me.

My camper and gear weigh enough that either truck would have been at max gvwr when loaded, so why not go with the one that has the heavier rated tires, wheels, brakes, axles, and a tighter turning radius?

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2001 Lance 1121 on a 2016 F450


4x4ord

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Posted: 12/29/19 12:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

carringb wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if commercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k


Correct. By and far, most states don't require weighed-registration for personal/RV use, but some do mandate that above 14k. Commercial users aren't generally buying pickups anyways. They are buying cab-chassis trucks.

I linked the detailed specs a while back (page 2?) and you can clearly see the F450 is quite a bit more capable, despite its 14k GVWR.



Here is the specs for the 2020 super duty pick ups link. What specs in particular are you seeing that suggest the F450 is more capable? I see the 4.30 axle does give it the highest tow rating but I don't think there are any RV'ers who need a higher tow rating than what an F350 offers.


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4x4ord

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Posted: 12/29/19 12:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NRALIFR wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

^^^ Are you thinking that F450 buyers don't register their trucks to haul above 14k lbs? Who's buying these trucks and what for? I'm sure if comercial buyers are hauling above 14k they're registering their trucks to haul above 14k. Come to think of it I actually only know of one F450 pickup owner. I've got a nephew that bought one to haul his ego around with. Is the F450 an F350 with the wide track front axle? Is it anymore capable than the F350?


Are you under the mistaken belief that the F450 pickup is just a 450 cab and chassis with a pickup bed? It isn’t. Between the back of the cab and the rear bumper, the frames are completely different. Commercial buyers aren’t going to buy the F450 pickups.

Who’s buying them? I’ve bought two. First a 2010, and now the 2016 in my sig, and you can see what I’m doing with it. The 2010 actually had a 14.5K gvwr, making it a “just barely” class 4 truck. But, I think that ultimately caused some problems for some buyers with licensing, registration, and insurance. I believe it also could have created a situation for Ford where the F450 pickup was reducing sales of the 450 cab and chassis. Corporations usually try to avoid having one product line compete with another.

Comparing the F450 pickup to the F350 pickup, at least in the 2008-2010, and the 2014-2016 model years, they were undeniably more capable. The 2011 through about 2013 F450 pickups were (IIRC) just rebadged F350’s, and I’m not quite as familiar with the current model years. But, even if you include the F350’s that had the wide track front axle (which isn’t available for the F350 any longer) the F450 pickup axles were rated higher by the axle manufacturer. The brakes were also bigger, and the trucks came with 19.5” tires. Those were all desirable to me.

My camper and gear weigh enough that either truck would have been at max gvwr when loaded, so why not go with the one that has the heavier rated tires, wheels, brakes, axles, and a tighter turning radius?

[emoticon][emoticon]


I think the 2020 model F450 has bigger wheels brakes and the wide track front axle, so yes those are advantages. I think if they offered it with a heavier rear axle rating some commercial guys might rather have a pick up than a cab and chassis for towing gooseneck equipment trailers.

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Posted: 12/29/19 12:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:



Here is the specs for the 2020 super duty pick ups link. What specs in particular are you seeing that suggest the F450 is more capable? I see the 4.30 axle does give it the highest tow rating but I don't think there are any RV'ers who need a higher tow rating than what an F350 offers.


I'll post this link again... These are the Full 2019 SuperDuty Specifications. If you take the time to read them, you'll see the F450 has an entirely different front axle, heavier rear axle internals, and bigger braking system all around. When Ford switched to the aluminum body, the frame did become common with the F450 once again, but it's all around stiffer than the previous generation. Plus the wide-track front axle and 19.5" wheels.

Also, one more bonus with the F450... You can get a eLocker with 4.30 gears, but not with 4.10 gears as that ratio only gets LS as an opion. So if you must have an eLocker, on the F350 you are limited to 3.55 gears which is good for 36k combined vs 41k+ for the F450/4.30 gears.

These are relatively small differences, but enough to matter for some folks, and it's nice to have the option. It may not be for you. That's fine. Don't buy one then.


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Posted: 12/29/19 02:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:


Edit: and why is the gvwr limit for both 3500 series and 4500 series set a 14000 lbs?


Class 3: This class of truck has a GVWR of 10,001–14,000 pounds or 4,536–6,350 kilograms.

Class 4: This class of truck has a GVWR of 14,001–16,000 pounds or 6,351–7,257 kilograms.

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4x4ord

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Posted: 12/29/19 03:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

carringb wrote:



I'll post this link again... These are the Full 2019 SuperDuty Specifications. If you take the time to read them, you'll see the F450 has an entirely different front axle, heavier rear axle internals, and bigger braking system all around. When Ford switched to the aluminum body, the frame did become common with the F450 once again, but it's all around stiffer than the previous generation. Plus the wide-track front axle and 19.5" wheels.

Also, one more bonus with the F450... You can get a eLocker with 4.30 gears, but not with 4.10 gears as that ratio only gets LS as an opion. So if you must have an eLocker, on the F350 you are limited to 3.55 gears which is good for 36k combined vs 41k+ for the F450/4.30 gears.

These are relatively small differences, but enough to matter for some folks, and it's nice to have the option. It may not be for you. That's fine. Don't buy one then.


It comes down to I think if they are going to build a truck more capable than the f350 dually then give it the springs and ratings so it can be used by those who need a truck more capable than an f350 dually. If there co.es a day I'm looking for a dually I might look at an f450 but more than likely I'll never want a lower speed axle than the 3.55.

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Posted: 12/30/19 04:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I priced out a platinum f450 and a platinum f350 drw diesel and the difference is $2500. The tires are very similar in height on the two trucks .... the f450 is about one half inch taller and three quarters of an inch narrower. Before this thread I actually thought the f450 was supposed to be in a class of its own but in the end I came to realize that there certainly are people in the market for an f350 drw that should consider the F450. In my mind the biggest drawback of the F450 is the 4.30 axle ratio and the biggest advantage is the wide track front axle. The bigger brakes of the f450 could also be a factor for those towing heavy trailers.

As far as GVWR numbers are concerned on the pickup trucks it seems as though they are not set by the manufacturers and therefore do not reflect much in the way of design limits. The truck manufacturers' axle ratings take into account the suspension and give a more accurate measure of a truck's weight carrying capacity.

Why truck manufacturers bother advertising payload capacity is beyond me. I guess boasting greatest payload beats be accused of being the lightest built truck in its class.

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Posted: 12/30/19 07:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It's simply a numbers game I have been accused of VIOLATING several times.

My GVWR is 14k

My "unloaded" front axle weight is around 5,250#

My loaded SAE rated RAW is around .........9,750#

So lets do sum math, add em up ..............15,000#

How can I have a FACTORY SAE rated rear axle weight and NOT exceed the magical 14k number?????

Even tho I show in black in white there are many that think I am breaking some sacred weight law by exceeding that Holy number of 14k. They say I will be sued in civil court, oh my!

So anyone who has a God given brain and actually uses it can deduct from these FACTS that is's simply a numbers game and to play it all you need to do is have enough tonnage to cover the weight pressing down on your 6 tires.

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Posted: 12/30/19 07:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x, the other user IMHO that is better served by the 450, is someone that hauls a TC. Otherwise, assuming one is staying within manufactures warranty ratings, tfe 350 iss generally speaking, on par in pickup form.
Otherwise as noted by many of that use our rigs commercial, or live in a jurisdiction that charges tonnage be a truck is used commercial or private like here in Washington state. Manufactures stickers be dammed! They mean nothing.

Marty


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Posted: 12/30/19 10:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Otherwise as noted by many of that use our rigs commercial, or live in a jurisdiction that charges tonnage be a truck is used commercial or private like here in Washington state. Manufactures stickers be dammed! They mean nothing."

^^^ This. I had to jump through hoops both registering and insuring my F550 dump truck(a previous generation, so not germane to the 2020 discussion) when the primary use was going to be personal and not commercial.


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