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Open Roads Forum  >  Travel Trailers  >  General Q&A

 > Towing a 2640lb 16ft TT with a Ford Ranger 4.0L?

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Jebby14

Windsor Ontario

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Posted: 02/03/20 12:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

why do you think the 4.6 and 5.4 v8's are bad motors? they were both proven work horses that could be run forever if taken care of?

* This post was edited 02/03/20 01:28pm by an administrator/moderator *

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 02/03/20 04:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit Dog, as I mentioned the weak point of manual transmissions is the clutch. Manual transmissions may be dirt simple an nearly "bullet proof" but the clutch is not.

Burn out a clutch and the repair is the exact cost of replacing a worn torque converter (200,000 or even more miles) since you must split the engine and transmission in both cases. I highly doubt to many folks ever see 200,000 or more miles on the original clutch..

Modern automatics (we will define that as say late 90s and newer) have drastically reduced losses to the point that it could be said that is a tie between automatics and manual for transferring input to output.

Besides, with a manual, you do not have a Tow/Haul feature with automatic hill descent downshifting strategy..

Grit Dog, if you have never used the Tow/Haul mode, you ARE missing out on a great feature. Works smoothly and seamlessly in holding back your vehicle when descending long steep grades.

Our first truck with Tow/Haul was our 2006 F250, I didn't know what to expect but the first hill/grade we came to I was sold it beats the pants off our 4 speed 2003 that I had to manually downshift going down hills, it was well worth the price of admission to have the truck downshift with absolutely no intervention from me. Each newer vehicle (2013 6 speed and 2019 6 speed) I have bought has even far better control and smoothness in Tow/Haul mode.

Looking forward to see how our latest purchase does (2020 F250 with 6 speed), Ford has added several new modes to play with.. I personally didn't want the 10 speed transmission, I don't like to be "Beta testers" for new products..

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 02/03/20 05:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Jebby, it is a typical Internet myth and it comes from the fact they do not have big HP or torque to compete against say a turbo diesel so they get run down.

It is one of those persistent myths which actually helps the OPs cause because of the lower perceived resale value.

A friend of mine just recently bought a 2008 F150 XLT 4x4 with 5.4 for $9K, not sure the mileage but it is rust free and good interior and good paint. Really looks like it was well taken care of.

If that was a F250/350 in that year with a 6.8 or Diesel it would have been north of $18K-$30K in my area right now.

Last year, I sold my 2003 F250 4x2 with 5.4 with nearly 240,000 miles for just under $3K although my 2003 did have the dreaded rusted out bed wheel wells (I did weld in repair panels so my DD could drive it) and the drivers door needed some rust repair, the vehicle drove perfect and was dead nuts reliable. The young kid that bought it was as happy as pig in mud, he was tired of using beat up old worn out Rangers for his landscaping business which was all he could afford.. I was glad that it gave him a better vehicle for his business and it was in a price range he was able to pay cash for.

Everyone has to start somewhere with what they can afford..

* This post was edited 02/03/20 05:28pm by Gdetrailer *

Jebby14

Windsor Ontario

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Posted: 02/04/20 07:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^ doesn't help op if he is too stuck on said myths nor the fuel mileage nonsense.


If it moves and it shouldn't..... duct tape
if it doesn't move and it should.....WD40
if all else fails .....BFH


Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 02/04/20 10:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer, yes I understand and am quite familiar with most trucks and drivetrain combos from the last 30 years. From driving, owning, managing fleets of (aware of overall cost of ownership) and wrenching on them.
Correct, clutches don’t last forever. And I agree that high miles original clutch is a liability. No more than an auto trans with the same miles though. And both could be great or both could be junk. The more info, service records etc the buyer can get, the more informed a decision they can make.
I don’t agree that the, now 20+ year old feature of tow haul is the best thing since beer in a can. Yes it’s good, yes it is merely a substitute for grabbing a lower gear yourself when talking downhill runs. Higher shift-points are plus though. But a manual trans has that capability too. Just requires operator input.
Just like this entire discussion, whether it’s which brand of vehicle , which engine,etc, in the old, high mile, low budget category, in general, the best condition, lowest miles vehicle wins. Auto or manual.


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 02/04/20 02:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Gdetrailer, yes I understand and am quite familiar with most trucks and drivetrain combos from the last 30 years. From driving, owning, managing fleets of (aware of overall cost of ownership) and wrenching on them.
Correct, clutches don’t last forever. And I agree that high miles original clutch is a liability. No more than an auto trans with the same miles though. And both could be great or both could be junk. The more info, service records etc the buyer can get, the more informed a decision they can make.
I don’t agree that the, now 20+ year old feature of tow haul is the best thing since beer in a can. Yes it’s good, yes it is merely a substitute for grabbing a lower gear yourself when talking downhill runs. Higher shift-points are plus though. But a manual trans has that capability too. Just requires operator input.
Just like this entire discussion, whether it’s which brand of vehicle , which engine,etc, in the old, high mile, low budget category, in general, the best condition, lowest miles vehicle wins. Auto or manual.


Grit dog,

Even the OP Fin has posted "Just wanted to add, I found out the manual xterra does have a lower tow rating, it's 3500 for the standard and 5k for the automatic."


That is direct from the manufacturer that they have and do derate a manual over automatics.

Ford has done this also, can't say for sure GM or Ram but most likely they have derated for manual.

When faced between a manual with LESS capacity and a auto with MORE capacity for nearly the same price, the HIGHER CAPACITY of the automatic trumps the lower capacity of the hand shaker..

They HAVE a reason to derate manuals so, otherwise they WOULD be rating manual transmissions the same OR HIGHER capacity over automatics if a manual transmission was superior..

Come on, it IS time to move from technology designed back in the 1920s (manual transmissions and manual clutch)..

The standard manual transmission train has left the station 10-15 yrs ago and it is never coming back. This really should not be a conversation but I get it, the stick huggers have a hard time making a change and playing taps for their old friend.

Jebby14

Windsor Ontario

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Posted: 02/05/20 04:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^ side note, i dont prefer a stick because its better (this stopped being true a long time ago) I prefer a stick because i like the driving experience better. Nobody would build me a V8 4x4 with a stick (shy of a G wagon or something excessive) so i went auto.

GrandpaKip

Flat Rock

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Posted: 02/05/20 08:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Jebby14 wrote:

^ side note, i dont prefer a stick because its better (this stopped being true a long time ago) I prefer a stick because i like the driving experience better. Nobody would build me a V8 4x4 with a stick (shy of a G wagon or something excessive) so i went auto.

The last truck I drove with a stick was a Chevy C30. 4 speed w/granny, no power steering or brakes. I don’t remember it being a better driving experience ;-)
Sports cars need a stick.


Kip
2015 Skyline Dart 214RB
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Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 02/05/20 05:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

GrandpaKip wrote:

Jebby14 wrote:

^ side note, i dont prefer a stick because its better (this stopped being true a long time ago) I prefer a stick because i like the driving experience better. Nobody would build me a V8 4x4 with a stick (shy of a G wagon or something excessive) so i went auto.

The last truck I drove with a stick was a Chevy C30. 4 speed w/granny, no power steering or brakes. I don’t remember it being a better driving experience ;-)
Sports cars need a stick.


[emoticon]

Yep, although I didn't drive a stick, one of my brothers did back in the 70's with a 66 Comet, three on the tree.. Had a 170 CU engine but he could toss you into the back seat shifting it under full throttle.. He wore out the column shifter and ended up installing a floor shift, easier pattern but still, on clutch, shift up, on clutch downshift and coming to a stop don't forget to shift to 1st..

Fun as a kid, but I along with many on this forum hopefully grew out of the racing kid stuff when towing..

Your driving a tow vehicle that weighs in 5,000 lbs- 8,200 lbs empty then coupling 4,000 lbs-12,000 lbs trailer behind it, you are not going to win the hole shot at every light and expect a clutch or an automatic trans to live long.

As an adult with well over a couple of million miles of driving, I would quit my job in a heart beat if driving a manual transmission was my only source of getting back and forth to work.. Traffic lights, congested roads and plain idiots that do stupid things in front of me just would make a 100 mile daily round trip even worse if had to manually shift gears and stomp on clutches..

I wouldn't ever wish or tell someone to go out and intentionally buy a manual shift for a tow vehicle for towing in today's traffic..

ajriding

st clair

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Posted: 02/06/20 01:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've never been in vehicle with another driving who was really good at the clutch. All can make vehicle go, but to have minimal impact on the clutch plates is an art, so I will assume most here are average drivers so clutch life when hauling a TC will be shorter, so an auto makes sense for many.
I looked at my clutch after 90k and it barely had scratches on the high spots, so clutches can last a very long time, or they can get burnt out in 30k miles also.

And btw, yes, Fords can be junky trucks. Great up until they start getting miles on them which is less than other trucks. Though failure rates might be as low as 5% that is a big number, to say 90-95% of these truck do not have issues is not motivating me to go buy one. I may be off, numbers might be 30% failure. Whatever they are in my research their problems surfaced much more often that other brands of trucks. You can shop for a truck based on the people who have no issues, or you can shop based on the ones who do have issues. Roll the dice. You really should go to a Ford forum to research this as nobody is going to take camper forum advice for buying a truck. We all chime in for the benefit so you can at least be aware and go find out for yourself.

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