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ShinerBock

SATX

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Posted: 03/24/20 10:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SidecarFlip wrote:

Whatever, I bet you blatantly ignore the advice of medical professionals concerning the Wuhan Flu too. I don't reside in a glass house but obviously, yo do.


Actually no, and I have been working from home since last Wednesday until April 6th. Haven't even went to the gym which is the worst part for me.

All I ask is for people to stop being sheep. If you are going to condemn someone for something, then at least know the actual regulations and how they affect things instead of just trusting whatever the EPA said. I mean seriously, if the EPA colluded with an environmental organization to say the lawn mowers are bad for your health and used a lawsuit to bypass the legislative system so that people should stop using them immediately, would you automatically think that lawn mowers are bad just because the EPA said so without even seeing the numbers? That is just ludicrous that people don't even know the numbers or their effects yet follow whatever they are told without questioning it especially when those numbers came to be in a fashion that removed the voters say so in the process.

Sport45

Not far enough from Houston, TX

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Posted: 03/24/20 11:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What would the air in our cities be like if everyone who wanted to deleted the emission controls from their vehicles?

I imagine it would be something like Manila 15 years ago. The air burned your eyes. (I don’t know what the air in Manila is like today)

I believe those who think everyone should be free to modify their vehicles in any manner possible are not thinking things all the way through. Sure, one polluter here and there doesn’t have a big impact. But it’s asinine to think the installed emission control systems aren’t needed.

Maybe the answer is to have statewide lotteries that a few could win and get a free pass to blast whatever they want out their exhaust pipes. If you limit it to a few dozen per state maybe the impact could be kept reasonable.


’19 F350 SRW CCLB PSD Fx4
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'83 F100 SWB 4x2, 302 AOD 3.55. (parked)
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ShinerBock

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Posted: 03/24/20 11:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think people here are thinking that I am talking about going to extremes and removing all emissions parts. I am not. As I stated before, emissions regulations are good, however, there is a point of little return for the amount of money spent and added pollution required to achive such small numbers. In my opinion, that was anything passed the 2004 standards.

There is only a 1.8 g/bhp-hr difference in PM and .8 g/bhp-hr difference between the 2004 and current standards and yet it causes less reliable vehicles, added pollution from less fuel economy, plants to make DEF, trucks to transport DEF, plants to make the plastic DEF containers, landfill pollution of the plastic containers, pollution from the material mined to make the DPF/SCR catalysts, and so on. All of this wasn't even thought of when EPA forced the manufacturers to attain these numbers, and they certainly did not go back to see if what it took to attain such a small difference was worth what it took to get there in regards to the added pollution it created.

Besides, it is dang near impossible(and costly) to remove all the emission parts on a 2011 and up trucks. Yeah, you can remove the EGR, DPF, and SCR, but these are just external devices. Then there is the VG turbo itself, the common rail fuel system, multi-fire injectors, the cam (which is specifically designed for emissions), and a few other parts. Then you have the diesels itself which pollutes less than 20 years ago. This is why even a deleted 2011+ truck emits less than a pre-2004 emissions truck with all of the emissions devices on it. The only way for you to roll coal is if you purposely program it to do so which I am also against. Heck, even direct injected gasoline engine emit more PM than the 2004 emissions and there are way more of them around most of you than diesels.

* This post was last edited 03/25/20 07:05am by ShinerBock *   View edit history

ShinerBock

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Posted: 03/24/20 01:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SidecarFlip wrote:

Whatever, I bet you blatantly ignore the advice of medical professionals concerning the Wuhan Flu too. I don't reside in a glass house but obviously, yo do.



Here is what I don't understand about you. If you are so concerned about air quality, then why do drive a truck that is pre-2004 or even pre-1998 regulation standards? On top of that, you said you had it "chipped" and increase its power output(more fuel) in another thread which increases it's emissions out put even more.

Because you have a HEUI fuel pump that has much lower pressures than modern diesels, single fire injectors that allow for a lot more un-burned fuel than modern multi-fire injectors, and a fixed geometry turbo than cannot alter the amount of air that goes in as effectively, your truck emits more than even a modern deleted diesel. Even more so with the power adders you added to it. So you yourself would not be legal in accordance to your year model if you strapped it down to a dyno and your truck emits even more yet you are chastising them. I don't get it....

And before you try and say that your power adders do not increase emissions, I am going to call BS on that. Also, because of your HEUI pump uses engine oil to get its pressure which puts a great amount of strain on the oil, you have to change your 17 quarts of oil three times as often(every 5k) versus my 12 quarts of oil(every 15k) making even more pollution. So not only does your truck emits more than mine, it also uses more fuel, and three times more oil.

SidecarFlip

SE Michigan

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Posted: 03/24/20 01:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:

Whatever, I bet you blatantly ignore the advice of medical professionals concerning the Wuhan Flu too. I don't reside in a glass house but obviously, yo do.



Here is what I don't understand about you. If you are so concerned about air quality, then why do drive a truck that is pre-2004 or even pre-1998 regulation standards? On top of that, you said you had it "chipped" and increase its power output(more fuel) in another thread which increases it's emissions out put even more.

Because you have a HEUI fuel pump that has much lower pressures than modern diesels, single fire injectors that allow for a lot more un-burned fuel than modern multi-fire injectors, and a fixed geometry turbo than cannot alter the amount of air that goes in as effectively, your truck emits more than even a modern deleted diesel. Even more so with the power adders you added to it. So you yourself would not be legal in accordance to your year model if you strapped it down to a dyno and your truck emits even more yet you are chastising them. I don't get it....

And before you try and say that your power adders do not increase emissions, I am going to call BS on that. Also, because of your HEUI pump uses engine oil to get its pressure which puts a great amount of strain on the oil, you have to change your 17 quarts of oil three times as often(every 5k) versus my 12 quarts of oil(every 15k) making even more pollution. So not only does your truck emits more than mine, it also uses more fuel, and three times more oil.


Why don't you step up to the plate and buy me a new one. I'm retired, I cannot afford a new 80 grand Tier4 truck but maybe you'd like to buy me one. Hows that Mr. Moneybags?

My truck has a Gale Banks EPA approved (for 1997 EPA certified) chip and turbo on it, all nice and legal (and approved) but if you want to, you can buy me a new one, I'll take it and scrap my old, paid for one, if that blows your dress up.

If not' quit whining.

Diesel dummies broke the law and got dinged. How it plays and whining about it proves nothing but your blatant ignorance of the law.


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SidecarFlip

SE Michigan

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Posted: 03/24/20 02:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Additionally, all my farm tractors are diesel as well and all are Tier2 (you know what that is?) If you don't' let me explain. They are all emissions exempt. Run fine but they do produce visible particulates (as all T2 engines do under load) so you can also buy me 3 new T4 compliant tractors to farm with along with a new T4 pickup truck and a comparable T 4 tractor to the ones I now own free and clear will set you back around an additional 250 grand plus the 80 or so for the pickup truck and I'll take them all to the shredder, no problem, you have the jack right?

Duh

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 03/24/20 02:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sport45 wrote:

What would the air in our cities be like if everyone who wanted to deleted the emission controls from their vehicles?



What you and the other sheeple are failing to see is that everyone who want's to do that already is....maybe there's a few afraid of Johnny law who aren't due to that, but from a personal and recreational light vehicles standpoint, it's already happening or happened 99%.

The biggest issue here is people who are butt hurt that someone dare "break the law". Any law. Even chit that some of the nut jobs on this forum perceive as laws even though they aren't.


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

Grit dog

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Posted: 03/24/20 02:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SidecarFlip wrote:

Additionally, all my farm tractors are diesel as well and all are Tier2 (you know what that is?) If you don't' let me explain. They are all emissions exempt. Run fine but they do produce visible particulates (as all T2 engines do under load) so you can also buy me 3 new T4 compliant tractors to farm with along with a new T4 pickup truck and a comparable T 4 tractor to the ones I now own free and clear will set you back around an additional 250 grand plus the 80 or so for the pickup truck and I'll take them all to the shredder, no problem, you have the jack right?

Duh


Sidecar, you've done lost your last marble.
You fall into the category I mentioned above.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 03/24/20 02:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

SidecarFlip wrote:

Additionally, all my farm tractors are diesel as well and all are Tier2 (you know what that is?) If you don't' let me explain. They are all emissions exempt. Run fine but they do produce visible particulates (as all T2 engines do under load) so you can also buy me 3 new T4 compliant tractors to farm with along with a new T4 pickup truck and a comparable T 4 tractor to the ones I now own free and clear will set you back around an additional 250 grand plus the 80 or so for the pickup truck and I'll take them all to the shredder, no problem, you have the jack right?

Duh


Actually I do know a lot about diesel emissions. Not only have I worked for a diesel manufacturer for many years(Cummins), I have worked on the customer, dealer, and manufacturing side of various vehicles OE's from Ford to Peterbilt since I was 16 so well over two decades. I know full well what diesel emission regulations are, their actual impact, and how they came to be. I also have a farm/ranch with over 50 head of cattle and a JD 4430 with a cab.

However, we are not talking about non-road tier 2 equipment. I am talking about your 97 truck that you chipped for increase power output that increased the emissions even more. Now before you go an say this truck was exempt from federal emissions, let me remind you of the diesel emissions standards of 1990 and 1994 which applies to your truck.

You see, federal diesel emissions standards didn't just start after your truck was made, they started years before, but because they were considerably more strict after 2004 lowering limits below a gram, most people didn't know much about these years because stuff like EGR's and DPF's weren't required to meet these standards. For on road pickup diesel engines the major emission requirements for diesel engines are as follows- 1985, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2011. Even though the EPA didn't start using the tier system until 1996, that does not mean prior years were exempt from emissions regulations.


So not only were you emitting more than me stock, but even more so now that you chipped your truck (and do not comply with your year's PM/NOx requirement), you have higher fuel consumption, and you use over three times the oil. Yet, you are chastising me for dirtying your air.

* This post was last edited 03/24/20 03:40pm by ShinerBock *   View edit history

garyp4951

TN

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Posted: 03/24/20 03:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I do miss my 2003 5.9 Cummins that was the last year with no emissions, or cats.

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