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Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire  >  General Topics

 > 2019–2022 CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC POSTINGS

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MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 04/23/22 04:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Allergic reaction to immunization seems to be common. With every "senior's flu shot" I get sicker than a dog for a couple of days. It's not psychosomatic: fever of 102°F proves that. But having had a butt-kicker of unvaccinated flu in 2019, I'll take the vaccine any day. When I get so sick I struggle to get out of bed, I start to worry.

BCSnob

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Posted: 04/26/22 08:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I found this preprint on aspects of natural immunity informative for previous discussions about the natural immunity produced by one variant's effectiveness in providing protection against other variants.

Shared N417-dependent epitope on the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron, Beta and Delta-plus variants
MedRxiv Preprint 26 Apr 2022

The researchers collected samples from hospitalized (more than asymptomatic or mild infections) patients during three different waves of SAR-CoV-2 infections.
Quote:

Plasma samples from the first SARS-CoV-2 wave (D614G-infected) were obtained from a previously described cohort across various sites in South Africa prior to September 2020 (3). Second wave samples (Beta-infected) were obtained from a cohort of patients admitted to Groote Schuur Hospital, Cape Town in December 2020 - January 2021 (18). Third wave samples (Delta-infected) were obtained from the Steve Biko Academic Hospital, Tshwane from patients admitted in July 2021.
In all waves, samples were collected when more than 90% of SARS-CoV-2 cases in South Africa were caused by the respective variants. Sequence confirmation was only available for a subset of samples but all the samples that were sequenced corresponded to the appropriate variant for that wave.


The neutralization tests were run using these samples against pseudoviruses for SARS-CoV-1 and the variants of SARS-CoV-2: D614G, Beta, Delta, & Omicron.

Quote:

D614G-elicited plasma triggered robust neutralization of the matched D614G spike (autologous neutralization), but showed very low levels of cross-reactivity, with a 12-15-fold decrease in neutralization towards all SARS-CoV-2 VOCs tested and to SARS-CoV-1 (Figure 1A). In contrast, as we previously reported, plasma from Beta infections was highly cross-reactive against the D614G variant (2.9 fold reduction) (18) but showed less cross-reactivity against other VOCs, with reductions against Delta, Omicron and SARS-CoV-1 of 11.3-fold, 9.4-fold and 9.3-fold, respectively (Figure 1A). We also tested plasma from Delta-infected individuals and found that although autologous titers against the matched spike were very high, there was a 15-41-fold drop in neutralization potency across VOC/VOIs and SARS-CoV-1. The higher level of cross-reactivity for the D614G variant (15-fold drop in potency, compared to Beta (35-fold drop) in Delta-elicited plasma is consistent with what others have reported (19, 21).


Immunity produced by one variant was protective against the pseudovirus of itself but there was varying degrees of lowered protection against the other variants. This means that "natural immunity" is dependent upon which variant cause the original infection and which variant(s) are currently circulating. This is no different than the issues of vaccine induced immunity (produced by the spike from "wild-type" SARS-CoV-2) and the variant(s) are currently circulating. The key differences between understanding how protected one is with "natural immunity" and vaccine induced immunity are:

1) All vaccine induced immunity is from the same variant (the spike from SARS-CoV-2); one may or may not know which variant induced natural immunity.

note: "wild-type" is the term used to describe the original virus in terms of genetic sequence

2) Vaccine induced immunity comes from a known dose of the antigen (a controlled surrogate for the virus) while the dose of virus that produced natural immunity was not controlled and can vary significantly between an asymptomatic infection and a severe infection requiring critical care in a hospital.

* This post was edited 04/26/22 09:00am by BCSnob *

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 04/26/22 12:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Moderna and it's reformulated vaccine

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/article........6084351fd4c466034232ee06e493377eac340d6a

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 04/27/22 06:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wonder why many of the serious adverse reactions to the vaccines are also serious side effects of a covid infection (and often at higher rates in the infection than with vaccination)?

Quote:

Thrombosis in COVID-19
American Journal of Hematology Volume 95........Issue 12, December 2020, Pages 1578-1589

Pulmonary embolism (PE) and deep vein thrombosis are the most frequently noted thrombotic events in COVID-19, with initial reports noting an incidence of 20% to 30% in critically ill patients (Figure 1).13 In a Dutch cohort of 184 subjects with COVID-19 in the intensive care unit (ICU), the cumulative incidence of large-vessel thrombotic events was 49%, the majority of which were pulmonary emboli seen on computed tomography in segmental and subsegmental pulmonary arteries.8 This occurred in spite of universal thromboprophylaxis with nadroparin at 2800 or 5700?IU once or twice daily, and the risk of all-cause death in that cohort was 5-fold higher among patients with a thrombotic event (HR 5.4; 95% CI 2.4 to 12). An Italian cohort of 388 patients observed a smaller but nevertheless sizable cumulative incidence of thromboembolic events at a rate of 21% (27.6% in the ICU, 6.6% on the general ward), half of which were diagnosed within 24?hours of hospital admission.14 A French cohort observed a similar cumulative incidence of thrombotic events and compared these to event rates from two different historical control populations: (a) ICU patients without COVID-19 admitted to the ICU in the Winter of 2019, and (b) patients with influenza admitted to the same ICU in 2019.15 Among COVID-19 ICU patients, 20.6% exhibited evidence of pulmonary embolism (diagnosed a median of 6?days from ICU admission), which was >2-fold higher compared to either historical control group. Therefore, it appears that COVID-19 may be uniquely prothrombotic compared to other severe viral respiratory pneumonias.


dturm

Lake County, IN

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Posted: 04/30/22 09:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I suspect many of these reactions are due to the immune response induced by either the vaccine or the disease. The reason the reactions might be more severe in the disease could be due to greater number and types of immune complexes created by the disease. After all, COVID can affect many different systems in the body while the vaccine produces a more focused immune response.

The typical vaccine reaction we see in practice is usually due to vaccine components that the individual is allergic to. Aside from the active ingredient most typical vaccine might include adjuvants, preservatives, stabilizers and residual particles from manufacturing.


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BCSnob

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Posted: 04/30/22 10:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The mRNA vaccines contain polyethylene glycols; the exact glycol is different for the two vaccines. A recent study looked at the immune responses to these glycols and found one induced more antibodies than the other.

mRNA-1273 but not BNT162b2 induces antibodies against polyethylene glycol (PEG) contained in mRNA-based vaccine formulations
MedRxiv preprint April 17, 2022

* This post was edited 04/30/22 12:40pm by BCSnob *

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 05/01/22 05:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Moderna announced that its specialized Delta-Ómicron booster vaccine is being tested and that it expects the new vaccine will be "mass distributed in the autumn 2022".

BCSnob

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Posted: 05/02/22 01:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I was asked about Moderna's ongoing variant vaccine trials. Below are recent publications and preprints about these studies. Above each link I have listed the antigens in the vaccines in the study. I use "Wuhan" to denote the original variant which is in the current vaccine.

Vaccines tested: Wuhan, Wuhan + Beta, Beta + Delta
SARS-CoV-2 Omicron Variant Neutralization after mRNA-1273 Booster Vaccination
N Engl J Med 2022; 386:1088-1091

Vaccines tested: Wuhan, Beta, Wuhan + Beta
Preliminary Analysis of Safety and Immunogenicity of a SARS-CoV-2 Variant Vaccine Booster
MedRxiv preprint May 06, 2021

Vaccines tested: Wuhan, Wuhan + Beta
Safety, Immunogenicity and Antibody Persistence of
a Bivalent Beta-Containing Booster Vaccine

Research Square preprint April 15th, 2022

Vaccines tested: Wuhan, Wuhan + Beta
Safety and immunogenicity of SARS-CoV-2 variant mRNA vaccine boosters in healthy adults: an interim analysis
Nat Med 27, 2025–2031 (2021)

Of the previous variants, Beta is more similar to Omicron than the other variants due to some shared common mutations in the RBD. I have not yet seen preprints on Omicron variant vaccines.

BCSnob

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Posted: 05/03/22 12:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This study measured the live virus neutralization of serum from PCR positive but not hospitalized patients and serum from mRNA vaccinated volunteers. The variant that caused the positive PCR test (Alpha, Delta, or Omicron BA.1) was identified as the dominate variant at the time of the test. Live viruses of 13 different variants were used for this evaluation. Non hospitalized Omicron infections conferred a lower level of protection against all variants tested except Omicron BA.1 than the protection from vaccination or infection by Alpha or Delta.

Omicron infection induces low-level, narrow-range SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing activity
MedRxiv preprint May 02, 2022

Quote:

Abstract:
Background: The rapid worldwide spread of the mildly pathogenic SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant has led to the suggestion that it will induce levels of collective immunity that will help putting an end to the COVID19 pandemics.

Methods: Convalescent serums from non-hospitalized individuals previously infected with Alpha, Delta or Omicron BA.1 SARS-CoV-2 or subjected to a full mRNA vaccine regimen were evaluated for their ability to neutralize a broad panel of SARS-CoV-2 variants.

Findings: Prior vaccination or infection with the Alpha or to a lesser extent Delta strains conferred robust neutralizing titers against most variants, albeit more weakly against Beta and even more Omicron. In contrast, Omicron convalescent serums only displayed low level
of neutralization activity against the cognate virus and were unable to neutralize other SARS-CoV-2 variants.

Interpretation: Moderately symptomatic Omicron infection is only poorly immunogenic and does not represent a substitute for vaccination.


BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 05/05/22 09:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dturm wrote:

I suspect many of these reactions are due to the immune response induced by either the vaccine or the disease. The reason the reactions might be more severe in the disease could be due to greater number and types of immune complexes created by the disease. After all, COVID can affect many different systems in the body while the vaccine produces a more focused immune response.

The typical vaccine reaction we see in practice is usually due to vaccine components that the individual is allergic to. Aside from the active ingredient most typical vaccine might include adjuvants, preservatives, stabilizers and residual particles from manufacturing.


Here is a recent study where the researchers were investigating if the SARS-CoV-2 spike could induce blood clots (thrombosis).

Evidence of SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein on retrieved thrombi from COVID-19 patients
Research Square preprint 3 May 2022

The researchers retrieved blood clots from Covid-19 patients who underwent mechanical thrombectomy to remove clots. They found:
Quote:

In this pilot study we could detect SP, but not nucleocapsid protein, on platelets of COVID-19 + patients’ thrombi. In addition, in all the three COVID-19 + thrombi analyzed for molecular biology, no SARS-CoV-2 RNA could be detected by real time-polymerase chain reaction. These data confirm the hypothesis that free SP besides the whole virus, may be the trigger of platelet activation and clot formation in COVID-19.


Vaccines also involve the spike protein which likely explains why blood clots can be an adverse reaction.

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