RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: Lithium Confusion

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Lithium Confusion

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 11  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
time2roll

Southern California

Senior Member

Joined: 03/21/2005

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 05/06/20 11:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

piano, have you monitored the input battery voltage on the magnum terminals as you start the A/C?

Certainly lithium will not have the voltage sag as lead-acid.


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up

time2roll

Southern California

Senior Member

Joined: 03/21/2005

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 05/06/20 11:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Itinerant1 wrote:

@pianotuna I'll update about the solar panels running the AC in a month or so. I had to go into an rv park in Montana so I ordered the Micro-Air easy start . I'll install it and run the 5 learning cycles while I have pedestal power. This camp is heavily treed and I'll have to wait for a test run with solar for the results.[emoticon]
I think you may want to do the learning in the worst conditions such as generator alone or generator with inverter assist. Does not seem right to program for an excellent power source. May not matter, check the instructions.

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 05/07/20 03:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:

@pianotuna I'll update about the solar panels running the AC in a month or so. I had to go into an rv park in Montana so I ordered the Micro-Air easy start . I'll install it and run the 5 learning cycles while I have pedestal power. This camp is heavily treed and I'll have to wait for a test run with solar for the results.[emoticon]


Itinerant1,

Magnum doesn't recommend running air conditioners on the 3000 watt hybrid inverter/chargers.

Mine is a Dometic 13500, equipped with microair.

I've tried everything I can to make it possible, but the red over load on the remote comes on.

I can run the roof air on the Magnum, but it doesn't like it. red light

I can run the roof air with Magnum on load support from the generator. red light

I can run the roof air directly from the generator.

I tried putting the autoformer between the generator and the shore power cord--but I had limited the Magnum to 24 amps input. That failed to run the roof air.

This summer, if we get out of lock down, I'll try again with the autoformer and the Magnum opened up on input to say 30 amps. That's about 2 amps greater than the surge value on the Yamaha generator. If that doesn't work then I'll set it for 50 amps and see what happens.

May you have better luck with the LI batteries and larger solar system, than I have.

If I ever have to replace the Magnum, I'll go to either Victron or Outback.

I use load support a great deal.


It seems that you have put it to the test and the results are not great. Maybe with load support, eu2200i and solar.

Last year when I was exercising my older eu2000i generator and was getting good sun on the panels, there was 160a being dumped into the lfp batteries. I'm hoping now that with easy start a eu2200i and solar I don't get the red light. I'll let you know the results.

Victron seems very impressive and that would probably be what I would go with if starting from scratch again but haven't done any hardcore homework on it, for what I have used my system for the past 4 years living off of it I am very satisfied but having the AC would be nice and if it doesn't happen it won't be the end of the world seeing we have survived this long without it.

* This post was edited 05/07/20 04:11am by Itinerant1 *


12v 500ah (5,120Wh usable), 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 1,600+ cycles.

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 05/07/20 04:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:

@pianotuna I'll update about the solar panels running the AC in a month or so. I had to go into an rv park in Montana so I ordered the Micro-Air easy start . I'll install it and run the 5 learning cycles while I have pedestal power. This camp is heavily treed and I'll have to wait for a test run with solar for the results.[emoticon]
I think you may want to do the learning in the worst conditions such as generator alone or generator with inverter assist. Does not seem right to program for an excellent power source. May not matter, check the instructions.


I thought that the 5 cycle learning curve for the Micro-air had to be from shore power that's the only reason that I waited this long because I didn't want to go in to an rv park just for that. The only reason I'm in this one is I didn't want to stay in a hotel during this covid-19 and brought my 5th wheel. I much prefer boondocking than rv parks and after 3.5 years not being in one can't wait to get out of it and it's only day 1 with only me in it so far with 56 spaces.

This couple of months will just remind us how spoiled we were boondocking and have us appreciating it more when we get back to it. The only thing I'm doing different now on pedestal power is enjoying the electric fireplace with heat coming from it. We did use boondocking for the ambiance without heat.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

Senior Member

Joined: 12/18/2004

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/07/20 06:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Intinerent1,

The Magnum is quite shiny for the price. I love the load support. It is NOT however voltage support, which is what I thought I was going to get.

The unit can be "tricked" into doing voltage support by trimming down the 120 volt input amperage. I don't recommend doing so, as I may have damaged mine.

I did have one catch on fire. The cooling fans do not operate on the Magnum unless there is 120 volt power from shore, or generator or inverter. I think this is a poor design as certainly lots of 12 volt fans are available.

I had been running the generator to run the roof air with load support on. I was leaving the RV and shut down the air conditioner, then the load support and finally the generator. I came back to soot marks on the wall above the Magnum.

The other issue is GFCI shore power. On some, but not all, GFCI outlets, the Magnum will trip the outlet. The tripping happens even with the inverter turned off. I know it is not the RV, because I have a patch board to allow me to wire around the Magnum, and the GFCI doesn't trip.

They did replace the Magnum under warranty. I was out the cost of shipping--and had to use a 1000 watt PSW that I keep as a back up. The replacement Magnum has a slightly higher voltage output of 123 compared to the original which was dead on 120 volts.

So when you do your tests--make sure to keep the inverter on after you are done to prevent the cooling fans from shutting down prematurely.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 05/07/20 06:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In the past 4 years I haven't turned the inverter off since the install, so that won't be a problem.

Thanks for the info.

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 06/01/20 04:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

@pianotuna I finally installed the micro-air 364 on to my Carrier Air V 15k air conditioner. I'm in campground hooked up to 50a service, completed the 5 learning cycles. It was interesting to watch the me-arc display in the ac input screen, the air conditioner fan would run for a couple minutes then I could see 3-4a load coming in for 60 +/- seconds then quickly climb to roughly 18a then settle at 14a.

Here are the test that I did. While still plugged into the pedestal I turned the load share down 15a, 10a, 5a and turning the air conditioner off for a couple minutes between each lowering and at no time did the ac unit stumble or did a red fault light show on the me-arc.

Then I disconnected the the power from the pedestal and connected it to the eu2200i generator setting the load support to 15a and 10a, same results no red fault light on the me-arc and no "overload" or stumble on the generator. Also I'm in tree cover/ overcast so little to no solar was helping.

I didn't try the ac unit on just batteries but I'll bet there shouldn't be a problem especially if solar is contributing. In a couple weeks when I'm back at boondocking I'll update those results.

Maybe with the lfp batteries that's the difference that I'm not getting the fault lights on the hybrid inverter or stumble in the ac unit or generator. [emoticon]

* This post was edited 06/01/20 07:02pm by Itinerant1 *

wa8yxm

Wherever I happen to park

Senior Member

Joined: 07/04/2006

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/01/20 04:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I seem to recall PD came out with an LI charge wizard..
And that. folks. is ALL I can tell you about it.


Home is where I park it.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times


01tundra

Middle, TN

Full Member

Joined: 06/21/2017

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/05/20 06:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

01tundra wrote:

We are running a PD4655L Wildkat converter set to the li setting.

It charges at a constant 14.6V until our single 100AH BattleBorn battery reaches 100% SOC. It starts out pushing 55 amps and then tapers off as the SOC gets higher, once the battery reaches 100% SOC the amperage tapers of to almost zero (usually around 0.25A or so).

I let it sit disconnected from the converter somewhere around 70-80% SOC and then charge it before we leave for the next trip, it charges so fast that it's no issue at all.
If plugged in running the air conditioner do you disconnect the battery or let it float at 14.6 for the full week?


I leave the batteries disconnected at the master switch. No need for them being connected to the system while on shore power.


2020 Rockwood Mini Lite 2109S
2017 GMC 2500HD Denali Duramax

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 06/09/20 06:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Itinerant1 wrote:

@pianotuna I finally installed the micro-air 364 on to my Carrier Air V 15k air conditioner. I'm in campground hooked up to 50a service, completed the 5 learning cycles. It was interesting to watch the me-arc display in the ac input screen, the air conditioner fan would run for a couple minutes then I could see 3-4a load coming in for 60 +/- seconds then quickly climb to roughly 18a then settle at 14a.

Here are the test that I did. While still plugged into the pedestal I turned the load share down 15a, 10a, 5a and turning the air conditioner off for a couple minutes between each lowering and at no time did the ac unit stumble or did a red fault light show on the me-arc.

Then I disconnected the the power from the pedestal and connected it to the eu2200i generator setting the load support to 15a and 10a, same results no red fault light on the me-arc and no "overload" or stumble on the generator. Also I'm in tree cover/ overcast so little to no solar was helping.

I didn't try the ac unit on just batteries but I'll bet there shouldn't be a problem especially if solar is contributing. In a couple weeks when I'm back at boondocking I'll update those results.

Maybe with the lfp batteries that's the difference that I'm not getting the fault lights on the hybrid inverter or stumble in the ac unit or generator. [emoticon]


Countinous from previous post,

Tried the 15k A/C unit from just batteries today to see if the fault light would show on the Me-Arc display from the hybrid inverter (seeing if I would have the same issue that Pianotuna said he had). No fault light and no stumble in the A/C at anytime.

99% SOC (13.3v before turning the A/C on)

From the me-arc display:
Inverter AC output 118v/ 60hz

Overcast/ pine forest (no visible sun)
Solar 180.7 watts
PV volts 35.7vdc
Batteries 13.1vdc (while A/C running)
8a charging from solar after turning A/C off

Initially turning it on the fan started and after 30 seconds the compressor started to spool up slowly, I could see the amps slowly climbing and max somewhere in the 190a range before settling down to 94a. So if I just use my minimum loads and the sun is shinning the solar panels will cover roughly 60-75a of the A/C load, balance from batteries would be 30ah +/- (6% SoC be depleted per hour)

Good to know now that during a moving day and taking a break for lunch that the air conditioner can be used from the batteries with no issues and not worry about dragging the eu2200i out.

I'll use my infrared laser thermometer to check connection and wires next time after some extended use.

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 11  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Lithium Confusion
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.