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dodge guy

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Posted: 07/24/20 05:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well I'm sure Jeep will wait for the Broncos release so they can trump it the same day with the 392 Wrangler!


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dodge guy

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Posted: 07/24/20 05:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

mich800 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Here's some comparisons of the Bronco vs the Jeep. Also Jeep advertised hinting with adding a 392 Hemi to the engine list.

Link


I am thinking a very expensive option. But...they are out there testing in plain sight. No camo. So unless you are close enough to hear or are observant enough to notice the dual rear exit exhaust it's just a Wrangler.


I can't help but wonder if the Jeep will have enough radiator to cool that V8.


The aftermarket has no problem with it!

mich800

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Posted: 07/24/20 06:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dodge guy wrote:

Well I'm sure Jeep will wait for the Broncos release so they can trump it the same day with the 392 Wrangler!


The only possible issue I see with that option is will Jeep be able to price it to be competitive. Currently the top level Bronco and Wrangler are close. I don't think it would actually pull away possible Bronco purchasers. But could make some movement within current Wrangler owners/lovers.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/04/21 10:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:



Not all of those had front lockers. The only one of those that had a front locker with IFS was the FJ and they were known for busting axle shafts which even the FJ guys will tell you (LINK).

In the kind of rock crawling off roading I do, you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails especially ones with front lockers. These parts(which are much smaller and weaker than SFA) will wear a lot quicker and are not as reliable off road as the solid axles. The problem gets worse when you start adding larger and heavier tires. I can't tell you how many times our group has had to go around an obstacle because an IFS with lockers grenaded trying to go up.

Then there is the fact of less traction on technical obstacles. IFS's will generally have one tire off the ground to where a solid axle will have both on the ground aiding traction. This is also one of the reason why they grenade. Since only one wheel has traction, the driver has to apply more throttle and starts to hop because the components are in a bind. This hopping and acceleration is not good for axle shafts since only one tire has all the weight and traction on the front end. IFS's without lockers do not tend to grenade as often, but cannot go up the really technical obstacles that lockers can.


Not saying it can't do it, it is just not ideal and is better suited for fast off roading where IFS shines over solid axles.



And it looks like what I stated here has begun......

2021 Bronco snaps both tie rods valiantly on extreme obstacle


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FishOnOne

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Posted: 10/04/21 05:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:



Not all of those had front lockers. The only one of those that had a front locker with IFS was the FJ and they were known for busting axle shafts which even the FJ guys will tell you (LINK).

In the kind of rock crawling off roading I do, you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails especially ones with front lockers. These parts(which are much smaller and weaker than SFA) will wear a lot quicker and are not as reliable off road as the solid axles. The problem gets worse when you start adding larger and heavier tires. I can't tell you how many times our group has had to go around an obstacle because an IFS with lockers grenaded trying to go up.

Then there is the fact of less traction on technical obstacles. IFS's will generally have one tire off the ground to where a solid axle will have both on the ground aiding traction. This is also one of the reason why they grenade. Since only one wheel has traction, the driver has to apply more throttle and starts to hop because the components are in a bind. This hopping and acceleration is not good for axle shafts since only one tire has all the weight and traction on the front end. IFS's without lockers do not tend to grenade as often, but cannot go up the really technical obstacles that lockers can.


Not saying it can't do it, it is just not ideal and is better suited for fast off roading where IFS shines over solid axles.



And it looks like what I stated here has begun......

2021 Bronco snaps both tie rods valiantly on extreme obstacle


The axle shafts looked good to me... And having lockers means its less critical that all four tires are on the ground in order to gain the necessary traction.

What I stated the Bronco will more than enough perform as a daily driver and perform the vast majority of the offroad duties. If extreme rock crawling is your thing I'm sure the aftermarket will have the parts just like they do for the Jeep.

Based on what I've seen from the new Bronco my money is on it for now.

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ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/04/21 08:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:



Not all of those had front lockers. The only one of those that had a front locker with IFS was the FJ and they were known for busting axle shafts which even the FJ guys will tell you (LINK).

In the kind of rock crawling off roading I do, you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails especially ones with front lockers. These parts(which are much smaller and weaker than SFA) will wear a lot quicker and are not as reliable off road as the solid axles. The problem gets worse when you start adding larger and heavier tires. I can't tell you how many times our group has had to go around an obstacle because an IFS with lockers grenaded trying to go up.

Then there is the fact of less traction on technical obstacles. IFS's will generally have one tire off the ground to where a solid axle will have both on the ground aiding traction. This is also one of the reason why they grenade. Since only one wheel has traction, the driver has to apply more throttle and starts to hop because the components are in a bind. This hopping and acceleration is not good for axle shafts since only one tire has all the weight and traction on the front end. IFS's without lockers do not tend to grenade as often, but cannot go up the really technical obstacles that lockers can.


Not saying it can't do it, it is just not ideal and is better suited for fast off roading where IFS shines over solid axles.



And it looks like what I stated here has begun......

2021 Bronco snaps both tie rods valiantly on extreme obstacle


The axle shafts looked good to me... And having lockers means its less critical that all four tires are on the ground in order to gain the necessary traction.

What I stated the Bronco will more than enough perform as a daily driver and perform the vast majority of the offroad duties. If extreme rock crawling is your thing I'm sure the aftermarket will have the parts just like they do for the Jeep.




Notice I said "you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails", not just axle shafts. Even multiple Bronco owners in that thread stated that the solid axle of the Wrangler is better in that situation just like post #14 did. Don't need any aftermarket mods to make my dana 44 front/rear axles or linkage components stronger and it would definitely handle that kind of rock crawling with stock components without braking. As I said, rock crawling is IFS's weak link and should be left to the solid axle vehicles unless you want to see your front end parts all over the trail.

stsmark

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Posted: 10/04/21 11:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have to agree with the second post on that thread, how do you break both tie rods? I just can’t see what on that obstacle could have caused that.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/05/21 06:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

stsmark wrote:

I have to agree with the second post on that thread, how do you break both tie rods? I just can’t see what on that obstacle could have caused that.


Saw a TRD 4Runner do this up in Hidden Falls not too long ago. He was trying to get over an obstacle with one of his passenger tire up in the air (due to his IFS) placing all the strain on his driver tire. He only had A-TRAC (E-LSD) up front which requires you to spin the tire a little bit to make the brakes stop the spinning wheel forcing all the torque to the wheel on the ground.

He started giving it the beans to get over the rock while also needing to turn. A-TRAC did it's job sending all the torque to the wheel on the ground while he was trying to turn and SNAP went the drivers side tie rod. The drivers side tire turned (since it was not being forced to go with the steering wheel) and caused the passenger side of the vehicle to the ground. Once the driver side tire slammed to the ground, SNAP went the other tie rod.

I went up the same obstacle with both tires on the ground spreading the traction (and tension) between both tires. I didn't even need to use my front locker. Even if I have had a tire up in the air, my tie rod and other components (which are all stock other than my track bar being a longer one for the lift) were a lot bigger and stronger than his which is generally the case with solid axles versus IFS's due to their designs.

* This post was edited 10/05/21 07:04am by ShinerBock *

pitch

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Posted: 10/05/21 06:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

mich800 wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:


For our off road and daily driver needs a IFS could be the ticket, but will need to test drive to confirm. I would like a soft long travel suspension which it appears how the Bronco is setup.

We came close to pulling the trigger on a Jeep Wrangler but with a few things we didn't like about it, and knowing the Bronco was coming we decided to hold off. Based on what I've seen we made the right decision.


The Bronco doesn't even have a mid-travel suspension let alone a long travel suspension. Heck, even the Raptor doesn't have a mid-travel suspension, but it is very close. If you are gonna use this vehicle as a daily/mall crawler that is not going to do any heavy rock crawling then IFS is the way to go. It will be noticeably smoother than a solid axle Jeep that you would have to throw a grand or so into for the same smoothness. If you do decide to take it on some serious trails, then make sure you bring along spare parts and/or upgrade to stronger materials if they have a lot of miles on them.


Not everyone does rock crawling for their off road adventures. The trade off is pretty high between that ability and on road manners. I drive Wranglers/Renegades probably 1000 miles per week for work and they suck on the highway. For the trails I travel the IFS is a much better compromise. But I have not been able to test the Bronco yet to do a direct comparison.


I understand that. Not downing the Bronco. It is just not ideal for the way I off road. No doubt an IFS is more comfortable for those that need that, but it is just not as capable or as strong. Another thing I hate about IFS's off road is that they teeter totter on a lot of obstacles which is an uneasy feeling.

It is like the GM HDs. No doubt they give their trucks a more comfortable ride stock, but it is not as strong/reliable as solid axles of the Ford and Ram HDs when you start adding bigger tires and heavy off roading. They also cannot take the abuse that a solid axle can which is why it is common for the GM HD front ends to snap on the track or at truck pulls.


Not downing the Bronco? 5 posts all saying that it does not work. You are aware that it is probably only 10% or less is into serious rock crawling don't you. The other 90 % is mud, overlanding,FS roads,hill climbing,etc. I have seen videos of the Bronco taking on the Rubicon and it did just as well as the Jeeps.
You probably could have made one post saying that while the Bronco would suffice for most,it just isn't for you.

Grit dog

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Posted: 10/05/21 10:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Or to put it more succinctly, who cares?
Of the number of new 4x4s sold, how many are used as rock buggies?
And of those very few, how many aren’t people who are just too dumb or have too much money to realize IFS is not the best solution for crawlers?
Guessing Ford doesn’t give 2 schitts since they’re selling like overpriced hotcakes!
Nor should anyone else. Unless you’re one of the few who are too dumb or have too much money to care….

IFS 4x4s are sooooo horrible, that of the dozens of them I’ve had from personal trucks to company rigs, including a tuned diesel in one of them, that I’ve broken exactly zero tie rods or half shafts in the better part of 30 years…. Including some of the early ifs GM trucks that definitely got wheeled pretty hard back in the day.

Would I buy a ifs truck as a dedicated wheeler? Nope. Because I’m not one of the above mentioned people on either account. Does that hurt Ford sales? Also no.


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