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ShinerBock

LVTX

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Posted: 10/05/21 11:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pitch wrote:


Not downing the Bronco? 5 posts all saying that it does not work. You are aware that it is probably only 10% or less is into serious rock crawling don't you. The other 90 % is mud, overlanding,FS roads,hill climbing,etc. I have seen videos of the Bronco taking on the Rubicon and it did just as well as the Jeeps.
You probably could have made one post saying that while the Bronco would suffice for most,it just isn't for you.


Actually my inital post in this thread was this.....

ShinerBock wrote:

I was excited about it until I learned it was IFS which is not ideal for the kind of off roading I do. I will stick with my JK.


And every post after that was in defense of this opinion that I stated which I have every right to have and it is the truth. I would have let it die with that comment and moved on if nobody would have gotten triggered by my opinion and kept quoting me with a rebuttal like you just did. That compels me to reply.


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FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

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Posted: 10/05/21 06:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:



Not all of those had front lockers. The only one of those that had a front locker with IFS was the FJ and they were known for busting axle shafts which even the FJ guys will tell you (LINK).

In the kind of rock crawling off roading I do, you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails especially ones with front lockers. These parts(which are much smaller and weaker than SFA) will wear a lot quicker and are not as reliable off road as the solid axles. The problem gets worse when you start adding larger and heavier tires. I can't tell you how many times our group has had to go around an obstacle because an IFS with lockers grenaded trying to go up.

Then there is the fact of less traction on technical obstacles. IFS's will generally have one tire off the ground to where a solid axle will have both on the ground aiding traction. This is also one of the reason why they grenade. Since only one wheel has traction, the driver has to apply more throttle and starts to hop because the components are in a bind. This hopping and acceleration is not good for axle shafts since only one tire has all the weight and traction on the front end. IFS's without lockers do not tend to grenade as often, but cannot go up the really technical obstacles that lockers can.


Not saying it can't do it, it is just not ideal and is better suited for fast off roading where IFS shines over solid axles.



And it looks like what I stated here has begun......

2021 Bronco snaps both tie rods valiantly on extreme obstacle


The axle shafts looked good to me... And having lockers means its less critical that all four tires are on the ground in order to gain the necessary traction.

What I stated the Bronco will more than enough perform as a daily driver and perform the vast majority of the offroad duties. If extreme rock crawling is your thing I'm sure the aftermarket will have the parts just like they do for the Jeep.




Notice I said "you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails", not just axle shafts. Even multiple Bronco owners in that thread stated that the solid axle of the Wrangler is better in that situation just like post #14 did. Don't need any aftermarket mods to make my dana 44 front/rear axles or linkage components stronger and it would definitely handle that kind of rock crawling with stock components without braking. As I said, rock crawling is IFS's weak link and should be left to the solid axle vehicles unless you want to see your front end parts all over the trail.


Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of.


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the1adman

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Posted: 10/05/21 08:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I agree, each have pros and cons. As a guy who has owned and still do both Jeeps and Broncos I have a fondness for both. I was pretty disappointed when the Bronco was introduced with IFS.

I think IFS will work great for 90% who purchase one. I personally think that solid axle pros out weight the cons. I don't think the Bronco will siphon very many Jeep loyalists.

I also prefer rear wheel drive cars, manual shift transfer cases, and the simplicity of vehicles 25 years ago, so I'm not the average buyer.

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:



Not all of those had front lockers. The only one of those that had a front locker with IFS was the FJ and they were known for busting axle shafts which even the FJ guys will tell you (LINK).

In the kind of rock crawling off roading I do, you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails especially ones with front lockers. These parts(which are much smaller and weaker than SFA) will wear a lot quicker and are not as reliable off road as the solid axles. The problem gets worse when you start adding larger and heavier tires. I can't tell you how many times our group has had to go around an obstacle because an IFS with lockers grenaded trying to go up.

Then there is the fact of less traction on technical obstacles. IFS's will generally have one tire off the ground to where a solid axle will have both on the ground aiding traction. This is also one of the reason why they grenade. Since only one wheel has traction, the driver has to apply more throttle and starts to hop because the components are in a bind. This hopping and acceleration is not good for axle shafts since only one tire has all the weight and traction on the front end. IFS's without lockers do not tend to grenade as often, but cannot go up the really technical obstacles that lockers can.


Not saying it can't do it, it is just not ideal and is better suited for fast off roading where IFS shines over solid axles.



And it looks like what I stated here has begun......

2021 Bronco snaps both tie rods valiantly on extreme obstacle


The axle shafts looked good to me... And having lockers means its less critical that all four tires are on the ground in order to gain the necessary traction.

What I stated the Bronco will more than enough perform as a daily driver and perform the vast majority of the offroad duties. If extreme rock crawling is your thing I'm sure the aftermarket will have the parts just like they do for the Jeep.




Notice I said "you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails", not just axle shafts. Even multiple Bronco owners in that thread stated that the solid axle of the Wrangler is better in that situation just like post #14 did. Don't need any aftermarket mods to make my dana 44 front/rear axles or linkage components stronger and it would definitely handle that kind of rock crawling with stock components without braking. As I said, rock crawling is IFS's weak link and should be left to the solid axle vehicles unless you want to see your front end parts all over the trail.


Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of.


ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/06/21 06:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:



Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of.


This is exactly what I have been saying yet you and others have been arguing with me. Solid axles are better for slow speed off roading while IFS is better for higher speeds. Hence the reason why I stated that IFS is not ideal for the type of off roading "I" do in my first post because everyone's off roading is different. Yet people took offence to what I think is ideal for the type of off roading "I" do.

Also, the comparison in ride quality between the Wrangler and Bronco is no different than my (and yours) solid axle HD truck versus the IFS GM trucks. My Wrangler is just as rough as my Ram HD and my brothers old 2012 Ford SD which is what you have as well. Is IFS smoother on roads? No doubt, but I didn't buy my Jeep for what it can do on road just like you didn't buy your truck for a smooth ride.

Also, if I am not mistaken. You yourself have pointed out how the IFS of your parents GM truck rides the same as your solid axle truck. I guess it depends what brand the IFS is attached to on whether or not you think it is the best or not.

* This post was last edited 10/06/21 07:27am by ShinerBock *   View edit history

FishOnOne

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Posted: 10/06/21 01:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:



Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of.


This is exactly what I have been saying yet you and others have been arguing with me. Solid axles are better for slow speed off roading while IFS is better for higher speeds. Hence the reason why I stated that IFS is not ideal for the type of off roading "I" do in my first post because everyone's off roading is different. Yet people took offence to what I think is ideal for the type of off roading "I" do.

Also, the comparison in ride quality between the Wrangler and Bronco is no different than my (and yours) solid axle HD truck versus the IFS GM trucks. My Wrangler is just as rough as my Ram HD and my brothers old 2012 Ford SD which is what you have as well. Is IFS smoother on roads? No doubt, but I didn't buy my Jeep for what it can do on road just like you didn't buy your truck for a smooth ride.

Also, if I am not mistaken. You yourself have pointed out how the IFS of your parents GM truck rides the same as your solid axle truck. I guess it depends what brand the IFS is attached to on whether or not you think it is the best or not.


The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.

BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.

Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.

ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/07/21 06:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:



The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.

BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.

Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.


I disagree with people all the time, but I don't comment or quote them. The second I do, then it becomes and argument or debate. There is a difference.

In regards to the GM IFS. I Googled multiple posts of yours talking about your parents GM IFS. In some you say it is better than a solid axle and in others you say it is no difference that your solid axle truck. You even mentioned in some that they are not reliable as a solid axle. So I guess it depends on the brand the IFS is attached to on which is better?

Grit dog

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Posted: 10/07/21 08:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:



The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.

BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.

Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.


I disagree with people all the time, but I don't comment or quote them. The second I do, then it becomes and argument or debate. There is a difference.

In regards to the GM IFS. I Googled multiple posts of yours talking about your parents GM IFS. In some you say it is better than a solid axle and in others you say it is no difference that your solid axle truck. You even mentioned in some that they are not reliable as a solid axle. So I guess it depends on the brand the IFS is attached to on which is better?



Who effin cares....
PS, little obsessive if your searching someone's old posts just to prove some point that noone cares aboot....


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FishOnOne

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Posted: 10/07/21 03:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:



The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.

BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.

Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.


I disagree with people all the time, but I don't comment or quote them. The second I do, then it becomes and argument or debate. There is a difference.

In regards to the GM IFS. I Googled multiple posts of yours talking about your parents GM IFS. In some you say it is better than a solid axle and in others you say it is no difference that your solid axle truck. You even mentioned in some that they are not reliable as a solid axle. So I guess it depends on the brand the IFS is attached to on which is better?


A lot of comparisons you're wrapping up here. IFS in a half ton performs different from a IFS in a HD truck and reliability is different as well. A IFS in a HD performs different if a gas engine or diesel engine is setting above it. A IFS in a HD performs different if its a two wheel drive vs a four wheel drive. When I made comments on a Solid axle truck it was a coil sprung suspension and not a leaf spring suspension which are worlds apart for ride quality. Brand has nothing to do with my comments.

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

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Posted: 10/07/21 06:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:



The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.

BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.

Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.


I disagree with people all the time, but I don't comment or quote them. The second I do, then it becomes and argument or debate. There is a difference.

In regards to the GM IFS. I Googled multiple posts of yours talking about your parents GM IFS. In some you say it is better than a solid axle and in others you say it is no difference that your solid axle truck. You even mentioned in some that they are not reliable as a solid axle. So I guess it depends on the brand the IFS is attached to on which is better?



Who effin cares....
PS, little obsessive if your searching someone's old posts just to prove some point that noone cares aboot....


If we keep this up either Ryan from down under will get involved or we'll be investigated by the FBI as Rv.net terrorist
[emoticon]

ShinerBock

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Posted: 10/08/21 06:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:



A lot of comparisons you're wrapping up here. IFS in a half ton performs different from a IFS in a HD truck and reliability is different as well. A IFS in a HD performs different if a gas engine or diesel engine is setting above it. A IFS in a HD performs different if its a two wheel drive vs a four wheel drive. When I made comments on a Solid axle truck it was a coil sprung suspension and not a leaf spring suspension which are worlds apart for ride quality. Brand has nothing to do with my comments.


This is not what your past comments said when I Googled everything you stated about IFS on this and other forums like the Ford Truck Enthusiast forum...... Unless someone else is using your unique name and has the same 2012 like yours.

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