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Open Roads Forum  >  Class C Motorhomes  >  Class C

 > Best house battery?

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pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 08/01/20 10:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pnichols wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

My next set will be SiO2. They can withstand 620 cycles to stone bone dead. Self discharge rate is 1.6% per month.


Don ... yeah, I kindof agree ... if:

1. They were available in Group 31 size instead of Group 27 size,
and

2. They could be charged directly by any good old run-of-the-mill engine alternator without burning up the alternator,
and

3. They could be charged if you wanted to and without damaging them or the converter by any good old run-of-the-mill 13.8 volt converter that used to come in many RVs.

IAW ... if certain SiO2 batteries were finally true 12V DROP-IN REPLACEMENTS for 12V deep cycle AGM batteries (the AGM batteries that charge good enough from a stock fixed voltage converter and don't ruin stock alternators) ... then I might consider the SiO2 batteries, eventually.

IMHO ... I feel that Battle Born batteries aren't quite there yet unless you have plenty of $$$$ to spend AFTER spending the $$$$ for the BB batteries themselves. [emoticon]


1. Actually they have a 100 amp-hour which might be a group 27, but I don't see why a group 31 would be more useful. Batteries are available in a wide range of sizes and voltages, even up to 270Ah 12V 8D batteries

2. SiO2 batteries charge similar to other lead acid chemistries – 14.4V – 14.7V boost/bulk and 13.5V – 13.8V float charge. Like lithium ion, no equalization is needed. Charging rate is C/4.

3. No problem charging from an alternator, because the alternator will see the chassis battery first--and taper accordingly.

They do not require charging to 100%.

The 100 amp-hour can have a draw rate of 900 amps.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp hours of AGM in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

pnichols

The Other California

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Posted: 08/02/20 12:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ooooops ... Don, I apologize! I misunderstood SiO2 batteries to be lithium ion batteries.

I prefer Group 31 size in any type battery I might use since two of them fit perfectly right under the step where Winnebago intended them to be, so why restrict myself to using only a couple of Group 27 size there? I don't think that the lithium ion brand I referred to comes in a Group 31 size (not sure on this though), so to spend the $$$$ for them in only Group 27 size would be not stuffing the available space with as many AH as possible.

I think that my coach battery interconnect solenoid connects the chassis battery in direct parallel with the coach batteries, so there's nothing to protect the alternator (?) from getting really hit with high initial inrush charging current if I were to drop in Battle Born Li batteries, from what I read about them - but you're talking about SiO2 battereis, which I know nothing about.

I rarely charge my big AGMs "fully" when camping. I rely on the drive home or RV storage at home to bring them to 100% using the low and slow method. The only time they see 14.XX charging volts is for a little while right after I start up a cold V10 alternator. [emoticon]

P.S. Why aren't SiO2 batteries talked about more in the forums?


Phil, 2005 E450 Itasca Spirit 24V

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 08/02/20 01:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pnichols wrote:



P.S. Why aren't SiO2 batteries talked about more in the forums?


I think because they are the "new kid on the block"?

The reason I want them is that there is no need to get to 100% and they can be used and charged at -40.

I'd consider "Firefly" batteries, too--but they do want a 100% charge after 30 partial charges--and want to be presented with 2/C of current (50 amps on a 100 amp jar). They are also a heck of a lot more expensive than SiO2.

pianotuna

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Posted: 08/02/20 01:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pnichols wrote:



I think that my coach battery interconnect solenoid connects the chassis battery in direct parallel with the coach batteries, so there's nothing to protect the alternator (?) from getting really hit with high initial inrush charging current if I were to drop in Battle Born Li batteries, from what I read about them


I think your inrush argument doesn't hold water for several reasons.

1. my class c had an oem 60 fuse--so if inrush exceeded that, it would blow.

2. my class C had #8 wire for the oem charging path. That limits it to about 50 amps.

I did replace the OEM fuse with a 50 amp automatic circuit breaker. I also added a 2nd charging path with #8 wire, switchable solenoid, and automatic circuit breaker.

Anecdotally, my alternator is still OEM and I do push it hard--even so far as running the 1400 watt water heater via the inverter. I use a 1/3 duty cycle--20 minutes of heating and 40 minutes off. That lets me arrive at the boondocking site with hot water and lots of battery power.

There is an excellent article on inrush at the smartgauge site.

Gjac

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Posted: 08/02/20 07:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I guess I don't understand these silicone dioxide batteries enough to form an opinion, but I see them listed on Amazon from $1100-$1300 for 2 6v 260 AHs or 12v 270 AHs. One can buy 2 6v Sam's Club GC batteries for under $200. Will these batteries last 5 times longer? To break even in cost per AH that would be 50 years.

2oldman

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Posted: 08/02/20 08:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gjac wrote:

to break even in cost per AH that would be 50 years.
True, but some people are willing to pay for convenience, no maintenance, longevity and performance.

2oldman

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Posted: 08/02/20 09:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

whemme wrote:

My opinion on a lot of these types of questions is that if there truly was a one and only one best house battery, it would be the only one left on the market.
x2. The question is really, "what's best for me?"

wolfe10

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Posted: 08/02/20 09:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2oldman wrote:

whemme wrote:

My opinion on a lot of these types of questions is that if there truly was a one and only one best house battery, it would be the only one left on the market.
x2. The question is really, "what's best for me?"


With one further criteria: At what price point OR SAID ANOTHER WAY dependent or independent of price.

No question, the choice for a full timer who dry camps most of the time should be entirely different from the weekender who keeps their coach plugged into shore power 95% of the time.


Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38'FDDS
Ex: 1997 Safari 35'
Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240

Diesel RV Club:http://www.dieselrvclub.org/

pnichols

The Other California

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Posted: 08/02/20 10:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The better question might be: If battery PRICE was no object for every RV'er whenever they bought batteries - then what would be the only battery type left on the market?

(Actually, from my EE courses - an air super capacitor is the ultimate battery if one has the room for it ... can't be overcharged, can't be undercharged, can be taken to zero or any point in between every time, and not counting natural metal corrosion - will last forever. [emoticon] )

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 08/02/20 10:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gjac wrote:

I guess I don't understand these silicone dioxide batteries enough to form an opinion, but I see them listed on Amazon from $1100-$1300 for 2 6v 260 AHs or 12v 270 AHs. One can buy 2 6v Sam's Club GC batteries for under $200. Will these batteries last 5 times longer? To break even in cost per AH that would be 50 years.


I don't pretend to understand their pricing.

A 100 amp 12 volt jar is sold at $600 cdn (about 450 usd). That provides 80 amp hours and 1500 cycles. A pair would provide more usable capacity than the Golf cart jars, and cost less per cycle.

They appear to be "batteries for dummies" as you can take them to zero state of charge 620 times. That's an amazing number.

What I would love to know is, after those 1500 deep cycles, is there still 80% of the capacity left? (I'm using that number as it is where electric vehicle batteries are considered "done in".)

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