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 > 2019+ RAM HD with failed CP4-2 IP to get CP3's

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ShinerBock

LVTX

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Joined: 02/22/2015

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Posted: 08/07/20 09:39am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Flan wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

I call BS.....

While the CP3 pump has much greater volume, it cannot pump the fuel at as high of pressures as the CP4. This means that Cummins cannot increase horsepower and meet emissions at the same time. The CP3 can easily get you up to 500 rwhp all day every day, but it cannot do it and meet emissions.

In order for Cummins to increase horsepower and meet emissions, they had to go with a higher pressure pump. This is one reason why I which that Ram stop this pissing match with Ford, because I would much rather the engine be reliable than tow some number than I will never tow. If I want to increase power, I can do it after I buy the truck. The CP4 is is what you get for wanting Ram to continue this pissing match instead of focusing on reliability. So blame yourself for the CP4 if you are one that believes that "Ike times matter".


industrial injection has a 10mm CP3 that comes with their conversion kit, and has EPA approval. Why wouldn’t Cummins be able to do it?


I seriously doubt the 10mm CP3 is EPA approved and can pass the same emissions certifications that a new truck does. In fact, I bet somewhere in a link to their CP3 conversion it says for "Closed Circuit Competition Only" just like this Industrial Injection LML CP3 conversion does....

LML Duramax CP4 to CP3 conversion kit with pump

I don't believe the standard (non-10mm) CP3 pump kit is EPA approved. Just because it works with factory fuel maps does not mean it is EPA approved. The CP3 is more than capable to reach the power numbers and fueling requirements of the CP4, it just can't do it and meet emissions like the CP4.

M.R.E.

MI, usa

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Posted: 08/07/20 10:08am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would think the standard Ram diesel would still have the CP3 pump and the HP diesel in the 3500 has the CP4 pump. So don't get the HP diesel.


toolmaker

Flan

NE

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Posted: 08/07/20 12:26pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

M.R.E. wrote:

I would think the standard Ram diesel would still have the CP3 pump and the HP diesel in the 3500 has the CP4 pump. So don't get the HP diesel.

I have the 2500 standard output, just like the 3500-5500 it has the CP4.


Heartland Prowler 27LX
19 Ram CTD 2500

Flan

NE

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Posted: 08/07/20 12:28pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Flan wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

I call BS.....

While the CP3 pump has much greater volume, it cannot pump the fuel at as high of pressures as the CP4. This means that Cummins cannot increase horsepower and meet emissions at the same time. The CP3 can easily get you up to 500 rwhp all day every day, but it cannot do it and meet emissions.

In order for Cummins to increase horsepower and meet emissions, they had to go with a higher pressure pump. This is one reason why I which that Ram stop this pissing match with Ford, because I would much rather the engine be reliable than tow some number than I will never tow. If I want to increase power, I can do it after I buy the truck. The CP4 is is what you get for wanting Ram to continue this pissing match instead of focusing on reliability. So blame yourself for the CP4 if you are one that believes that "Ike times matter".


industrial injection has a 10mm CP3 that comes with their conversion kit, and has EPA approval. Why wouldn’t Cummins be able to do it?


I seriously doubt the 10mm CP3 is EPA approved and can pass the same emissions certifications that a new truck does. In fact, I bet somewhere in a link to their CP3 conversion it says for "Closed Circuit Competition Only" just like this Industrial Injection LML CP3 conversion does....

LML Duramax CP4 to CP3 conversion kit with pump

I don't believe the standard (non-10mm) CP3 pump kit is EPA approved. Just because it works with factory fuel maps does not mean it is EPA approved. The CP3 is more than capable to reach the power numbers and fueling requirements of the CP4, it just can't do it and meet emissions like the CP4.



Here is the link to the II 6.7 kit


https://www.industrialinjection.com/product/6-7l-cummins-cp4-to-cp3-conversion-kit/

ShinerBock

LVTX

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Joined: 02/22/2015

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Posted: 08/07/20 12:40pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Flan wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Flan wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

I call BS.....

While the CP3 pump has much greater volume, it cannot pump the fuel at as high of pressures as the CP4. This means that Cummins cannot increase horsepower and meet emissions at the same time. The CP3 can easily get you up to 500 rwhp all day every day, but it cannot do it and meet emissions.

In order for Cummins to increase horsepower and meet emissions, they had to go with a higher pressure pump. This is one reason why I which that Ram stop this pissing match with Ford, because I would much rather the engine be reliable than tow some number than I will never tow. If I want to increase power, I can do it after I buy the truck. The CP4 is is what you get for wanting Ram to continue this pissing match instead of focusing on reliability. So blame yourself for the CP4 if you are one that believes that "Ike times matter".


industrial injection has a 10mm CP3 that comes with their conversion kit, and has EPA approval. Why wouldn’t Cummins be able to do it?


I seriously doubt the 10mm CP3 is EPA approved and can pass the same emissions certifications that a new truck does. In fact, I bet somewhere in a link to their CP3 conversion it says for "Closed Circuit Competition Only" just like this Industrial Injection LML CP3 conversion does....

LML Duramax CP4 to CP3 conversion kit with pump

I don't believe the standard (non-10mm) CP3 pump kit is EPA approved. Just because it works with factory fuel maps does not mean it is EPA approved. The CP3 is more than capable to reach the power numbers and fueling requirements of the CP4, it just can't do it and meet emissions like the CP4.



Here is the link to the II 6.7 kit


https://www.industrialinjection.com/product/6-7l-cummins-cp4-to-cp3-conversion-kit/


Yeah, that does not mean it is EPA compliant or has the same emissions as stock. That just means it will work with factory equipment and fuel mapping just like my the fixed geometry S364.5 turbo that I installed on my 6.7L Cummins, however, that does not mean it is EPA emissions compliant.

When I worked for Cummins, there was a lot of dyno testing that we had to do for emissions certifications and even slight changes would require us to another round of certifications.

ShinerBock

LVTX

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Joined: 02/22/2015

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Posted: 08/07/20 12:54pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

M.R.E. wrote:

I would think the standard Ram diesel would still have the CP3 pump and the HP diesel in the 3500 has the CP4 pump. So don't get the HP diesel.


Because Ram increased the compression ratio on the standard (or "efficiency" version in the medium duty industry I am in) of the 6.7L. Increasing the compression ratio requires higher pressures to remain emissions legal.

Basically here is how it goes. Two things increase Nox emissions, more power and high compression ratios. If you want to make more power, then you have to decrease compression ratios and/or use higher pressure fuel pumps. This will reduce efficiency, but increase power of the engine while still remaining emissions compliant. This is why the high output version of the 6.7L went from 17.3:1 to 16.2:1 in the 2019 engines.

On the flip side, the standard output engines went from 17.3:1 to 19:1. In order for them to make this increase and still remain emissions compliant(even without increasing power) is with a higher pressure fuel pump. So even though the standard output engine does not have as much power, it should be more efficient due to it's much higher compression ratio.

* This post was edited 08/07/20 01:19pm by ShinerBock *

Flan

NE

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Posted: 08/07/20 01:54pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Flan wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

Flan wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

I call BS.....

While the CP3 pump has much greater volume, it cannot pump the fuel at as high of pressures as the CP4. This means that Cummins cannot increase horsepower and meet emissions at the same time. The CP3 can easily get you up to 500 rwhp all day every day, but it cannot do it and meet emissions.

In order for Cummins to increase horsepower and meet emissions, they had to go with a higher pressure pump. This is one reason why I which that Ram stop this pissing match with Ford, because I would much rather the engine be reliable than tow some number than I will never tow. If I want to increase power, I can do it after I buy the truck. The CP4 is is what you get for wanting Ram to continue this pissing match instead of focusing on reliability. So blame yourself for the CP4 if you are one that believes that "Ike times matter".


industrial injection has a 10mm CP3 that comes with their conversion kit, and has EPA approval. Why wouldn’t Cummins be able to do it?


I seriously doubt the 10mm CP3 is EPA approved and can pass the same emissions certifications that a new truck does. In fact, I bet somewhere in a link to their CP3 conversion it says for "Closed Circuit Competition Only" just like this Industrial Injection LML CP3 conversion does....

LML Duramax CP4 to CP3 conversion kit with pump

I don't believe the standard (non-10mm) CP3 pump kit is EPA approved. Just because it works with factory fuel maps does not mean it is EPA approved. The CP3 is more than capable to reach the power numbers and fueling requirements of the CP4, it just can't do it and meet emissions like the CP4.



Here is the link to the II 6.7 kit


https://www.industrialinjection.com/product/6-7l-cummins-cp4-to-cp3-conversion-kit/


Yeah, that does not mean it is EPA compliant or has the same emissions as stock. That just means it will work with factory equipment and fuel mapping just like my the fixed geometry S364.5 turbo that I installed on my 6.7L Cummins, however, that does not mean it is EPA emissions compliant.

When I worked for Cummins, there was a lot of dyno testing that we had to do for emissions certifications and even slight changes would require us to another round of certifications.
i see what your saying.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 08/07/20 05:49pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

M.R.E. wrote:

I would think the standard Ram diesel would still have the CP3 pump and the HP diesel in the 3500 has the CP4 pump. So don't get the HP diesel.


You think or you dreamed that?


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 08/07/20 05:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

M.R.E. wrote:

I would think the standard Ram diesel would still have the CP3 pump and the HP diesel in the 3500 has the CP4 pump. So don't get the HP diesel.


Are you related to the guy who thinks they put 2018 engines in 2020 trucks at his dealership?? Lol

Me Again

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Posted: 08/08/20 11:11am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Some more info on RAM CP4 IP.

[image]


2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it!


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