RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: Lithium Batteries

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Lithium Batteries

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 13  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 09/07/20 01:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Now that's funny comparing Lifepo4 batteries used in rvs to flashlight lithium.

Who would of thought a battery holding its voltage to the end as a disadvantage. Lol

I hope all this glamorizing of silicon dioxide batteries are as good as the reviews being put forward by folks that are reading manufacturer specs. [emoticon]


12v 500ah (5,120Wh usable), 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 1,600+ cycles.

pnichols

The Other California

Senior Member

Joined: 04/26/2005

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 09/07/20 03:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Itinerant1 wrote:

Now that's funny comparing Lifepo4 batteries used in rvs to flashlight lithium.

Who would of thought a battery holding its voltage to the end as a disadvantage. Lol

I hope all this glamorizing of silicon dioxide batteries are as good as the reviews being put forward by folks that are reading manufacturer specs. [emoticon]


I suspect that lithium battery electro-chemisty basics are close to being the same whether we be talking about a lithium RV battery or a lithium flashlight battery. [emoticon]

I for one don't want an RV battery "surprise" by an abrupt running out of storage energy ... versus being able to monitor the charge level getting low gradually via mere slow tapering of output voltage ... instead of having to buy, install, and learn how to use an integrating ammeter based instrument that lithium batteries require for optimum RV applications.

IMHO, silicon dioxide batteries for an RV look to be superior - other than their weight - for good old RV use. Their performance characteristics seem very similar to lithium - but their cost is far from similar. Why pay more for nearly the same usefulness? It seems to me that the K.I.S.S. principle includes minimizing the strain on one's wallet if there's little disadvantage in doing so.


Phil, 2005 E450 Itasca Spirit 24V

3 tons

NV.

Senior Member

Joined: 03/13/2009

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 09/07/20 04:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Per P-tuna: “ I do know that published statistics are always going to be the "most favorable" ....

Agreed, thus one might ‘rationally conclude’ that this rule applies to all products (e.g. battery types), eh??

Either way, kudos to the silicon dioxide option! - looking forward to reading some more detailed reviews...

3 tons

Slownsy

USA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/16/2011

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 09/07/20 05:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Can they be linked in parallel etc, as apparently some LI batteries can’t, and what about discharge rate for high inverter loads. Thanks
Frank.


Frank
2012 F250 XLT
4x4 Super Cab
8' Tray 6.2lt, 3.7 Diff.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

Senior Member

Joined: 12/18/2004

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 09/07/20 07:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Slownsy wrote:

Can they be linked in parallel etc, as apparently some LI batteries can’t, and what about discharge rate for high inverter loads. Thanks
Frank.


SiO2 do not require balancing. They are NOT Li. They ought to be, just as any other battery, be wired in a balanced manner.

But yes, they can be wired in series or parallel, depending on the voltage needed.

Discharge rate is up to 9C (for 5 seconds).


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

msmith1199

Reno, NV

Senior Member

Joined: 10/07/2001

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 09/07/20 07:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Now I’m more confused than when I asked the question! But I’ll do some more research. I like the less weight of the Lithium and although I don’t want to just throw money away, cost for this particular item isn’t the main concern to me. Performance is what I’m interested in.


2021 Nexus Viper 27V. Class B+
2019 Ford Ranger 4x4


Bill.Satellite

Full-timer

Senior Member

Joined: 12/25/2012

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 09/07/20 07:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When the cost of Li is 10X the cost of AGM, cost will likely be the final determination.


What I post is my 2 cents and nothing more. Please don't read anything into my post that's not there. If you disagree, that's OK.
Can't we all just get along?

msmith1199

Reno, NV

Senior Member

Joined: 10/07/2001

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 09/07/20 07:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bill.Satellite wrote:

When the cost of Li is 10X the cost of AGM, cost will likely be the final determination.


Not for me for this item. I’d just leave the brand new batteries that came with the motorhome in it if that was the issue. I’ve already decided on the battery upgrade now it’s just working out which one. The only one I won’t do for cost was the 300ah that was suggested that cost $3000. Not spending that much. But I already expected to pay $2000. Looks like I can get a single 200ah Li for about $1300. So that one is in the lead right now.

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 09/07/20 07:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What are you confused about? LFP (Lifepo4) come in dropin style for the end user that wants an easy plug and play result. They come in different sizes 100ah, 200ah, 300ah which can be paralleled for larger ah capacity. These also come with all safe guards to protect the cells within the battery packs, they also have bluetooth capability which you download an app to your phone and now you know what's happening with the batteries.

Ask specific questions on what's confusing you.

01tundra

Middle, TN

Full Member

Joined: 06/21/2017

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 09/08/20 07:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pnichols wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:



What is the advantage to them over Lithium? Is it just cost? Do they provide as much power?


As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C.

Similar to LI in that partial charging is just fine--though best practise is to do a full charge on a monthly basis.

advantages
1. can be used and charged at -40
2. can be run stone bone dead 620 times
3. can do 50% discharge 2800 times
4. no need to stop charging at 90% which LI prefer (for storage)
5. can do 80% discharge 1500 times

disadvantages:
1. heavier and larger foot print than Li
2. charge rate 4/c however if one has 300 amp-hours that hardly matters as convert size may not be able to get to 75 amps--without upgrading.


In addition to the silicon dioxide battery characteristics that Don lists above, they have one more advantage over lithium batteries that is important to me:

Lithium RV batteries hold their output voltage "high" right to the end before recharging ... their output voltage does not taper off a bit as they discharge .... unlike what the output voltage of lead acid batteries and that of silicon dioxide batteries does. To me the output not tapering off - like lithiums do - as they discharge IS NOT preferred ... it's a "disadvantage". It's nice to know when you're getting near the point where recharging is necessary by merely periodically checking the voltage on your RV's battery powered circuit - when that voltage reads around 12 volts, recharge them. As I understand it, silicon dioxide RV batteries act about the same way ... making it very simple to know about when to recharge them.

To get around this when switching to lithium RV batteries - in addition to their higher cost - you must spend even more money on what is technically known as an "integrating ammeter". This is a battery monitor that tracks how many amps are removed from the battery bank over time - thus showing how many amp hours have been used out of the battery bank.

To me, the above is just another gadget to buy in addition to the high lithium battery initial cost. Why have to purchase an amp hour consumption monitor - when silicon dioxide RV batteries have just about the same performance characteristics (they weigh more than lithium, but they recharge and operate at lower temperatures than lithium) as lithium RV batteries.

P.S. For example, I have a lot of lithium battery powered flashlights, remotes, and small tools ... AND IT'S VERY IRRITATING when they surprise you by suddenly dying with very little get-dim/slow-down type discharged warnings.


Having a battery monitor "gadget" is an accurate way to monitor the SOC of any type of battery chemistry, including lead acid.

Measuring with a volt meter is often misleading and very inaccurate, unless you let the battery sit for a hours at rest. But if you're really stuck on using this inaccurate method, the same can be done with LiFePO4 batteries.....they don't all of the sudden die as you describe. They discharge and have a voltage vs SOC curve just like any other battery.

LiFePO4 batteries are a complete different chemistry from Li batteries in flashlights and such.

How much personal experience do you have with LiFePO4 batteries in an RV?


2020 Rockwood Mini Lite 2109S
2017 GMC 2500HD Denali Duramax

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 13  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Lithium Batteries
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.