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coolmom42

Middle Tennessee

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Posted: 09/05/20 10:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

msmith1199 wrote:

Beats me. I’m not a refrigeration guy either. It’s a whirlpool electric fridge.


What gemsworld was referring to were the 2 possibilities. One of them is a typical off the shelf residential fridge you can get at any big box store. (Sounds like what you have.)

The other possibility has a high-efficiency compressor called a Danfos type compressor. They are made to be used while in motion and run off 12V at high efficiency. Like these.


Single empty-nester in Middle TN, sometimes with a friend or grandchild on board

pnichols

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Posted: 09/06/20 01:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

Consider SiO2 chemistry--1/2 the price. I'm not sure of the dimensions.

https://azimuthsolarproducts.com/product-category/batteries/ull/


I second the silicon dioxide battery technology recommendation that Don is making above.

Here's a link to the 270 AH SiO2 battery - that is only 20.47 inches long - so it would probably fit in your space:
https://azimuthsolarproducts.com/product/12v-270ah-sio2-battery/


Phil, 2005 E450 Itasca Spirit 24V

Lwiddis

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Posted: 09/06/20 11:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

“If I’m there I can run the generator.”

Yuck! Yuck for your neighbors too. Solar is silent but it is relatively new compared to generators, requires study, new thinking, installation etc. Batteries usually fill by noon, 1 p.m. even when you are in camp. Stay full until sunset.


Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2020 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, 300 watts solar-parallel & MPPT, Trojan T-125s. TALL pole for flags. Prefer USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, USF&WS, state & county camps. Bicyclist! 14 year Army vet - 11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560)


3 tons

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Posted: 09/06/20 01:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I’m using a single 200a/hr LiFePo4 and have been very satisfied with it, particularly with Lithium’s favorable attribute of a rapid harvest recovery rate (even during marginal harvest periods) along with it’s nearly flat discharge voltage characteristics .. However, If you go this route, determining battery SOC (state of charge in %) can be problematic unless using a SOC meter that by design is Li capable like Victron’s impressive BMV 712... Another aspect is with charging (mainly, correct voltage, cold WX charging limitations - equalizations not regd.) but your battery provider can provide these specifics...

Feel free to PM me for any other questions,

3 tons

msmith1199

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Posted: 09/06/20 07:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pnichols wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

Consider SiO2 chemistry--1/2 the price. I'm not sure of the dimensions.

https://azimuthsolarproducts.com/product-category/batteries/ull/


I second the silicon dioxide battery technology recommendation that Don is making above.

Here's a link to the 270 AH SiO2 battery - that is only 20.47 inches long - so it would probably fit in your space:
https://azimuthsolarproducts.com/product/12v-270ah-sio2-battery/


What is the advantage to them over Lithium? Is it just cost? Do they provide as much power?


2021 Nexus Viper 27V. Class B+
2019 Ford Ranger 4x4


msmith1199

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Posted: 09/06/20 07:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

I’m using a single 200a/hr LiFePo4 and have been very satisfied with it, particularly with Lithium’s favorable attribute of a rapid harvest recovery rate (even during marginal harvest periods) along with it’s nearly flat discharge voltage characteristics .. However, If you go this route, determining battery SOC (state of charge in %) can be problematic unless using a SOC meter that by design is Li capable like Victron’s impressive BMV 712... Another aspect is with charging (mainly, correct voltage, cold WX charging limitations - equalizations not regd.) but your battery provider can provide these specifics...

Feel free to PM me for any other questions,

3 tons


I don’t know what most of this means, but I get you are happy with it.

pianotuna

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Posted: 09/07/20 11:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

msmith1199 wrote:



What is the advantage to them over Lithium? Is it just cost? Do they provide as much power?


As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C.

Similar to LI in that partial charging is just fine--though best practise is to do a full charge on a monthly basis.

advantages
1. can be used and charged at -40
2. can be run stone bone dead 620 times
3. can do 50% discharge 2800 times
4. no need to stop charging at 90% which LI prefer (for storage)
5. can do 80% discharge 1500 times

disadvantages:
1. heavier and larger foot print than Li
2. charge rate 4/c however if one has 300 amp-hours that hardly matters as converter size may not be able to get to 75 amps--without upgrading.

* This post was edited 09/07/20 01:36pm by pianotuna *


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp hours of AGM in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

3 tons

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Posted: 09/07/20 11:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

“ As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C. ”

For clarity only, Per BattleBorn specs, “2C for 30 sec” (with nearly stable voltage), but I’m not sure how this compares with silicon dioxide?

Either way, it appears Silicon Dioxide is a viable LiFePo4 alternative based on both cost and on cold weather charging-discharging characteristics... JMHO

3 tons

pianotuna

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Posted: 09/07/20 12:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

“ As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C. ”

For clarity only, Per BattleBorn specs, “2C for 30 sec” (with nearly stable voltage), but I’m not sure how this compares with silicon dioxide?

Either way, it appears Silicon Dioxide is a viable LiFePo4 alternative based on both cost and on cold weather charging-discharging characteristics... JMHO

3 tons


SiO2 9C for 5 seconds is the only figure I have seen. Kind of made my jaw drop as I'm planning either 400 amp-hours or 600. 400 x 9 = 3600 amps--I'd better have pretty thick wire!

I do know that published statistics are always going to be the "most favorable". Perhaps 3 tons of salt should be taken, too!

pnichols

The Other California

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Posted: 09/07/20 12:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:



What is the advantage to them over Lithium? Is it just cost? Do they provide as much power?


As far as power goes 100 amp-hours is 100 amp-hours. However SiO2 may do larger discharge rates than LI. LI appear to be limited to about 1 C.

Similar to LI in that partial charging is just fine--though best practise is to do a full charge on a monthly basis.

advantages
1. can be used and charged at -40
2. can be run stone bone dead 620 times
3. can do 50% discharge 2800 times
4. no need to stop charging at 90% which LI prefer (for storage)
5. can do 80% discharge 1500 times

disadvantages:
1. heavier and larger foot print than Li
2. charge rate 4/c however if one has 300 amp-hours that hardly matters as convert size may not be able to get to 75 amps--without upgrading.


In addition to the silicon dioxide battery characteristics that Don lists above, they have one more advantage over lithium batteries that is important to me:

Lithium RV batteries hold their output voltage "high" right to the end before recharging ... their output voltage does not taper off a bit as they discharge .... unlike what the output voltage of lead acid batteries and that of silicon dioxide batteries does. To me the output not tapering off - like lithiums do - as they discharge IS NOT preferred ... it's a "disadvantage". It's nice to know when you're getting near the point where recharging is necessary by merely periodically checking the voltage on your RV's battery powered circuit - when that voltage reads around 12 volts, recharge them. As I understand it, silicon dioxide RV batteries act about the same way ... making it very simple to know about when to recharge them.

To get around this when switching to lithium RV batteries - in addition to their higher cost - you must spend even more money on what is technically known as an "integrating ammeter". This is a battery monitor that tracks how many amps are removed from the battery bank over time - thus showing how many amp hours have been used out of the battery bank.

To me, the above is just another gadget to buy in addition to the high lithium battery initial cost. Why have to purchase an amp hour consumption monitor - when silicon dioxide RV batteries have just about the same performance characteristics (they weigh more than lithium, but they recharge and operate at lower temperatures than lithium) as lithium RV batteries.

P.S. For example, I have a lot of lithium battery powered flashlights, remotes, and small tools ... AND IT'S VERY IRRITATING when they surprise you by suddenly dying with very little get-dim/slow-down type discharged warnings.

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