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 > 2021 Ford F-150 hybrid

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bikendan

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Posted: 09/29/20 02:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

"This model is also capable of hauling a 3325 payload"

I will be much more impressed if the payload package is more obtainable and can be combined with the higher towing ratings. It has been almost impossible to get for the last 6 years and required seemingly unrelated compromises if you did special order it.


Yep, I'm more interested in the real world payload capacity numbers, NOT towing capacity numbers. Especially with a big heavy battery in it.


Dan- Firefighter, Retired">, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur">, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP">), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes


FishOnOne

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Posted: 09/29/20 04:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Let's hope Ford did a better job on this hybrid than Ram did.


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Groover

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Posted: 09/29/20 05:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

bikendan wrote:

Groover wrote:

"This model is also capable of hauling a 3325 payload"

I will be much more impressed if the payload package is more obtainable and can be combined with the higher towing ratings. It has been almost impossible to get for the last 6 years and required seemingly unrelated compromises if you did special order it.


Yep, I'm more interested in the real world payload capacity numbers, NOT towing capacity numbers. Especially with a big heavy battery in it.


It won't have a big heavy battery. I would be surprised if the lithium battery in it weighs 30lbs. I would like to see at least 4 times that much battery.

rjstractor

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Posted: 09/29/20 08:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

bikendan wrote:

Groover wrote:

"This model is also capable of hauling a 3325 payload"

I will be much more impressed if the payload package is more obtainable and can be combined with the higher towing ratings. It has been almost impossible to get for the last 6 years and required seemingly unrelated compromises if you did special order it.


Yep, I'm more interested in the real world payload capacity numbers, NOT towing capacity numbers. Especially with a big heavy battery in it.


It won't have a big heavy battery. I would be surprised if the lithium battery in it weighs 30lbs. I would like to see at least 4 times that much battery.


Agreed, a battery in the 10-15 kwh range would not be exceedingly heavy, and would allow for a 20-30 mile range on battery only. This would allow many commuters to run on battery only, while retaining the ability to tow heavy for long distances primarily on gasoline.

colliehauler

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Posted: 09/30/20 04:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Isn't the battery/electric motor more of a temporary boost for like climbing a hill or passing another vehicle?

valhalla360

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Posted: 09/30/20 05:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

colliehauler wrote:

Isn't the battery/electric motor more of a temporary boost for like climbing a hill or passing another vehicle?


That's what the discussion is about.

Traditional Hybrids did just that. The battery would give a boost when there was a high power demand such as accelerating from a stop light of climbing a hill. Then when power demand drops, the engine recharges the battery for the next surge. This allows the engine to spend more of it's time at it's most efficient power output improving efficiency.

This truck appears to be a traditional Hybrid. With 1.5kWH of batteries, it can provide about a 25hp boost for about 5 minutes before being fully depleted. That's fine for accelerating from a stop light or passing someone but for any significant hill climb, it will run out of juice long before you get to the top.

With a Plug-In-Hybrid, they put a larger battery bank in but still significantly smaller than a pure battery EV. In normal daily use, you charge at night in your garage. Let's say 20kWH battery bank. When commuting to work (not towing or loaded heavy), you may only average about 60hp output to maintain speed. If you run the math that might give you a 20 mile range under electric alone...then the engine kicks in if you need to go further. The vast majority of miles are short range commuting trips, so if you are 10 miles from work, you will only rarely have the gas engine kick on. (As it nears empty, it can switch to more of a traditional operation using the battery for short boosts to compensate for a smaller gas engine).

As mentioned, a 1.5kWH battery bank might weigh 30lb, so a 20kWH bank would weigh about 400lb, for most users, this wouldn't be a big issue. The downside is PIHs usually use an undersized engine as it's assumed to be relatively rare to operate in gas mode only.

I think Ford is caught in a marketing dilemma. Big HP and towing numbers sell but honestly, who's really buying a 1/2 ton truck to tow 14,000lb. A 5000lb tow rating truck that is able to get 95% of it's miles under electric power, would be far more useful to most buyers but now you have to convince the buyers, they don't need huge HP/Towing numbers.


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Groover

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Posted: 09/30/20 07:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

colliehauler wrote:

Isn't the battery/electric motor more of a temporary boost for like climbing a hill or passing another vehicle?


That is part of my beef with this tiny battery. The battery will probably make a good impact on the EPA mileage test for an empty truck but I would like to have a battery makes an impact when towing a fairly heavy trailer. Also, a mode that enables you to charge or deplete the battery (especially one this small) in anticipation of making a major hill climb or a descent. Batteries also charge slower than they can discharge so your regen will be limited by battery size.

Finally, this truck is advertised for use as a 7.5Kw stationary generator. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have to run an engine this size continuously to supply 2 or 3kw. Put in a big enough battery that you can run the engine awhile at a higher output then shut down for an hour or two.

Finally, there are tax credits available for batteries of 5Kwh so at first they really wouldn't cost the consumer anything. My guess is that Ford is saving those credits for vehicles that will try to compete with Tesla.

Reisender

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Posted: 09/30/20 08:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don’t see this as being particularly realistic for 1/2 ton owners. Most 1/2 tons I see are pulling 25 foot or smaller travel trailers or equipment trailers weighing 6000 or 7000 pounds. The coming Ford Electric half ton, the Tesla Cybertruck and the Rivian are all electric 1/2 tons that will do the same job with much more power, virtually no maintenance and can be charged at home or at the shop. There are a lot of grocery getter half tons around here but also a lot of contractors. I can’t see a contractor choosing a gasser/hybrid that can’t be plugged in over an electric once 2022 rolls around. The operating costs of the electric would be a small fraction of the operating costs of anything with a tailpipe.

Jmho.

jdc1

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Posted: 09/30/20 09:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Here's what the big three missed:
They should have built this hybrid like a Chevy Volt/Honda Clarity. But, instead of a gasoline engine, a 2.0 liter diesel generator. See, Clarity's and Volts's are electric vehicles with gasoline generators. The big three could have easily configured a 400hp electric set-up like the Volt/Clarity. The motor in that set-up would last 2-3 times longer than a standard vehicle, not having to do much more than generate electricity. Imagine your truck having 400hp without having to get up to speed or wait for the turbo's to kick in. That's 400hp ALL the time, whenever you need it. No slowing down on 6% grades. Regenerative charging on the way down that same hill. Biased? Yep. I own a couple of hybrids. I know just how wonderful they are. Getting 80mpg from my plug-in Prius is like sipping a fine wine.

Groover

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Posted: 09/30/20 10:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I took a long look at the Clarity a year ago and couldn't make a case for it. The battery was too small to go very far on electricity alone and I figured that I wouldn't save enough on fuel to hassle with plugging it in nearly every day. The gas engine doesn't have much range or great fuel economy.

The Volt has already been shut down.

I like the idea but am inclined to say that those are not the best vehicles to copy.

To get me interested in plugging in a hybrid I would want to see at least a 15kwh battery.

I just recently read an article that claimed that most plug in hybrids never get plugged in because it just isn't worth the hassle to save $1 on fuel.

I am planning to buy a real electric car withing the next 9 months, not one of those.

* This post was edited 09/30/20 10:59am by Groover *

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