RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: Fuelly mileage of the big three diesels

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Fuelly mileage of the big three diesels

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 12  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 10:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wing_zealot wrote:

Yes, of course, the people that do this every day for a living for 15 years aren't the experts; the RV.Net guys are the experts. My Bad.
This from the guy that says the insurance for a diesel is "under $5" more. (maybe he meant per day?).
And some day let's talk about the lost oppurtunity cost on the $10.000.00 up front cost of the diesel.
Oh, never mind, once again I forgot I was questioning the experts.


^Nother guy who wishes he had a diesel and is sore about it...


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

ShinerBock

LVTX

Senior Member

Joined: 02/22/2015

View Profile



Posted: 10/04/20 01:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wing_zealot wrote:

Yes, of course, the people that do this every day for a living for 15 years aren't the experts; the RV.Net guys are the experts. My Bad.
This from the guy that says the insurance for a diesel is "under $5" more. (maybe he meant per day?).
And some day let's talk about the lost oppurtunity cost on the $10.000.00 up front cost of the diesel.
Oh, never mind, once again I forgot I was questioning the experts.


No, they aren't experts. They are good with numbers and analyzing existing numbers, but they are poor at where they are getting their numbers. And yes, the difference is only $5. In fact, my BMW car and wife's Infiniti SUV costs more per month than my Ram 2500, and the BMW is the same year model while my wife's Infiniti is two years older than my truck.

The "lost opportunity? of the $10k upfront cost is only valid if you paid cash which would be a dumb idea to do in the first place if you can get a lower interest rate than what you would make on that money in investments over the term. Most people finance it so they don't have that $10 to begin with. So would the $10k spent going from the base trim to a Lariat trim(it is over 11k in the Ram) be a "lost opportunity"? What if one decided that he would rather spend that $10k on a diesel option rather than the higher trim level option? Would that still be a "lost opportunity"?

Why is it only a "lost opportunity" when discussing diesels, but not gas engine upgrades, trim level upgrades, 4wd upgrades and so on? Why is the diesel the only one that has to have a "pay back" to justify it yet turning around and spending $10-11k on a Lariat/Laramie trim needs not justification? Or upgrading to a higher power gas engine option and 4wd (even though it uses more fuel and cost more money in the long run) needs no justification of a pay back to be worth it, yet getting a diesel engine option upgrade needs justification even though it is the only one out of all of the truck options that has some form of payback through fuel and resale? I don't understand the thinking around that.

* This post was edited 10/04/20 01:23pm by ShinerBock *

dfm

B.C.

Senior Member

Joined: 05/08/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 10/04/20 02:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

.


2015 Open Range 340 FLR
2012 Ram3500 Laramie Longhorn/Cummins
1 DW 1 Furperson

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

Senior Member

Joined: 02/12/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 03:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

Fuel mileage wasn't even a consideration when I bought my 2014 Ram 2500 CTD either. Neither was cost. It mainly came down to me being familiar with the Cummins, it's reliability, and being able to work on it myself. My company also is a Cummins distributor so I could get Cummins parts and software cheap.

Then again, we also own nine Ford dealerships so I could do the same for Ford, but after looking under the hood of my brother's 2012 F350 PSD he had at the time, I got turned away. I knew I wasn't going to keep my truck stock and was going to replace the turbo, manifolds, injectors, and so on later on down the road. Replacing all this stuff in the PSD myself would have been a nightmare compared to how easy it was in my Cummins. I do wish the Ram had a stout/tunable transmission like the Ford does though. These are just my preferences and everyone is different. I just posted the fuel mileage to give people a clue on what to expect in the real world.

Not trying to start a brand war and I am not sure about the new 2020 model, but I would tow with the newer PSD's before trading that Ram in. My brother traded in his 2012 for a 2014 Ram 2500 and he stated multiple times that it tows better(stability wise) that his F350. My father in law said the same thing when he had to borrow my truck because his 2019 F350 was in the shop due to a recall. Both said the 2500 handles the bounce/sway considerably better than their F350s. May not be a big deal for some.


Not trying to start a brand war either, but in 2012 when I got the new truck bug (the offering of a stock 400hp didn't help either [emoticon]) Ram didn't offer DEF in their 2500/3500 trucks and touted their trucks not needing it which I would never purchase one without DEF and I couldn't stomach the looks of the Chevy truck. My 2005 Super Duty gave me good service so I decided on another Super Duty truck which I felt had the best platform at the time by far. My truck currently has 198k miles and the engine/drivetrain hasn't been touched. EGT sensors, Nox sensor, AC compressor, evaporator coil, passenger side hub/bearing, 2 serpentine belts, 2 brake jobs have been the repairs to date. I've been extremely pleased with the service of this truck and the fuel economy and the regen frequency is essentially unchanged which tells me the engine and the emissions system is still in good shape.


'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
"200k Mile Club"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"


FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

Senior Member

Joined: 02/12/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 03:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

theoldwizard1 wrote:

The initial cost difference for a diesel engine is huge. Add in the cost of DEF and those 4-5 GALLON oil changes and oil filter that cost TRIPLE a standard oil filter and that is a LOT of $$$.

Unless you drive 50K+/year AND tow/haul heavy loads, anyone shopping for a new truck should consider a Ford Super Duty with the 7.3L gas and 10 speed transmission.


So what are the numbers? Calculate initial cost, total fuel costs, DEF costs, maintenance, taxes, registration, interest rates, and resale trade in after 100k miles. I did, and came out ahead with my Ram 2500 Cummins over the 6.4L 2500 using both 87 octane and the higher 89 octane that was recommended. The total cost on the 5.7L was lower though.

[image]


So what are your numbers? I don't know about you, but I would gladly pay for a more powerful engine upgrade if it only cost less than $1,500 over the course of 5 years/100k. Many pay more than that on engine upgrades in half tons.


What your chart is missing is the historical average cost of diesel vs gas which for as long as I can remember diesel has been ~$0.60/gal more than gas and if you keep your truck after the warranty period I would think you should include the average cost of repairs/miles driven in which this data could be difficult to obtain, but should be part of the equation.

My family knows a local oil service company that converted all their 2500 SRW trucks to gas trucks, because they grew tired of the emissions related repairs on their diesel trucks. They've been running their fleet this way for over 5 years now.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 03:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^ Likely because the early tier IV issues bit them, just like everybody else. And about the time they were able to upgrade, the emissions systems had gotten markedly better.

32vld

LI, NY

Full Member

Joined: 09/26/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 06:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

wing_zealot wrote:

Yes, of course, the people that do this every day for a living for 15 years aren't the experts; the RV.Net guys are the experts. My Bad.
This from the guy that says the insurance for a diesel is "under $5" more. (maybe he meant per day?).
And some day let's talk about the lost oppurtunity cost on the $10.000.00 up front cost of the diesel.
Oh, never mind, once again I forgot I was questioning the experts.


No, they aren't experts. They are good with numbers and analyzing existing numbers, but they are poor at where they are getting their numbers. And yes, the difference is only $5. In fact, my BMW car and wife's Infiniti SUV costs more per month than my Ram 2500, and the BMW is the same year model while my wife's Infiniti is two years older than my truck.

The "lost opportunity? of the $10k upfront cost is only valid if you paid cash which would be a dumb idea to do in the first place if you can get a lower interest rate than what you would make on that money in investments over the term. Most people finance it so they don't have that $10 to begin with. So would the $10k spent going from the base trim to a Lariat trim(it is over 11k in the Ram) be a "lost opportunity"? What if one decided that he would rather spend that $10k on a diesel option rather than the higher trim level option? Would that still be a "lost opportunity"?

Why is it only a "lost opportunity" when discussing diesels, but not gas engine upgrades, trim level upgrades, 4wd upgrades and so on? Why is the diesel the only one that has to have a "pay back" to justify it yet turning around and spending $10-11k on a Lariat/Laramie trim needs not justification? Or upgrading to a higher power gas engine option and 4wd (even though it uses more fuel and cost more money in the long run) needs no justification of a pay back to be worth it, yet getting a diesel engine option upgrade needs justification even though it is the only one out of all of the truck options that has some form of payback through fuel and resale? I don't understand the thinking around that.



Comparing apples to oranges.


Numbers for an example:

Base model pickup $25,000 gas, $35,000 diesel option

Mid model pickup $35,000 gas, $45,000 diesel option

Top model pickup $45,000 gas, $55,000 diesel option


The base model truck is not a better truck with a diesel then
the mid model truck because it still has less features.

Three identical mid model pickup trucks, one has a 4.8 V6, another a 5.3 V8,
one with a 6.0 V8. None of them is the best. Depending what someone
values/needs such as purchase price, fuel economy, power, is what
makes that truck perfect for them.

I did the math many years ago when a diesel option would cost $5,000.
If you drive a diesel pickup 100,000 miles a year in one year it would
pay back that $5,000 higher purchase price based on better mpg even
with higher fuel costs

If you drove that same truck 10,000 miles a year it would take 10 years
to pay back that $5,000 higher purchase price based on better mpg even
with higher fuel costs.

Though those numbers did not include higher diesel maintenance and
repair costs.

Then there is the high wear and tear from high mileage and the high
wear and tear from age.

You bought the diesel, used it 10,000 miles a year. It's now 10 years old with 100,000
miles. The AC stopped working, the power seats are broken, interior worn,
seat fabric has some splits, tears, power door locks some times work, LF power
window won't go down. Fender has a ding, Got some rust starting. Truck
developed rattles (must be a Ford) creaks ad clunks (must be a Dodge)

Now what would be better to keep that 10 year old truck because it as just past
the break even point for buying a diesel. Or to of not spent that $10,000 on
the diesel option back then but use that $10,000 now as a down payment on
a brand new pickup (Chevrolet)?

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

Senior Member

Joined: 02/12/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 07:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I simply bought a diesel because of the towing performance plain and simple. Plus when I would pull my boat down to the coast, I couldn't make the 200 mile round trip without stopping for gas. With my diesel I can make that trip plus drive to work and back for a few days and my diesel has a 3 gallon smaller tank than the half ton did. When we decided to purchase a camper that was the last straw for the gas truck.

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

Senior Member

Joined: 02/12/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 07:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

^ Likely because the early tier IV issues bit them, just like everybody else. And about the time they were able to upgrade, the emissions systems had gotten markedly better.


Could have been...

S Davis

Western WA

Senior Member

Joined: 08/11/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 10/04/20 09:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Anyone seeing diesel cheeper than gas? I saw diesel 40 cents less than regular today.

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 12  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Fuelly mileage of the big three diesels
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.