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 > Fuelly mileage of the big three diesels

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ShinerBock

LVTX

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Posted: 10/05/20 02:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dadoffourgirls wrote:


I was towing between MI and Kansas. 10 mpg. I purchased the Def at the truck pumps at $2.99, and most have used slightly more than your calculation. I was surprised by the amount of DEF I used, but followed the messages.


Well then of course. The cost per mile of DEF/diesel will go up when towing just as it would with a gas truck. My calculations are based on average fuel economy numbers on Fuelly. However, if you have a GM diesel, then you likely use more DEF simply because they get the worst fuel mileage of all three according to the Fuelly images in my initial post. The more fuel the truck uses, the more DEF it uses.


Doing the math at 10 mpg, your DEF usage should be $.00598 per mile at the industry standard of 50:1.

* This post was last edited 10/05/20 03:05pm by ShinerBock *   View edit history

32vld

LI, NY

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Posted: 10/05/20 06:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

32vld wrote:




Comparing apples to oranges.


Numbers for an example:

Base model pickup $25,000 gas, $35,000 diesel option

Mid model pickup $35,000 gas, $45,000 diesel option

Top model pickup $45,000 gas, $55,000 diesel option


The base model truck is not a better truck with a diesel then
the mid model truck because it still has less features.

Three identical mid model pickup trucks, one has a 4.8 V6, another a 5.3 V8,
one with a 6.0 V8. None of them is the best. Depending what someone
values/needs such as purchase price, fuel economy, power, is what
makes that truck perfect for them.

I did the math many years ago when a diesel option would cost $5,000.
If you drive a diesel pickup 100,000 miles a year in one year it would
pay back that $5,000 higher purchase price based on better mpg even
with higher fuel costs

If you drove that same truck 10,000 miles a year it would take 10 years
to pay back that $5,000 higher purchase price based on better mpg even
with higher fuel costs.

Though those numbers did not include higher diesel maintenance and
repair costs.

Then there is the high wear and tear from high mileage and the high
wear and tear from age.

You bought the diesel, used it 10,000 miles a year. It's now 10 years old with 100,000
miles. The AC stopped working, the power seats are broken, interior worn,
seat fabric has some splits, tears, power door locks some times work, LF power
window won't go down. Fender has a ding, Got some rust starting. Truck
developed rattles (must be a Ford) creaks ad clunks (must be a Dodge)

Now what would be better to keep that 10 year old truck because it as just past
the break even point for buying a diesel. Or to of not spent that $10,000 on
the diesel option back then but use that $10,000 now as a down payment on
a brand new pickup (Chevrolet)?


And when you traded that truck in, you would get over $5,000 more for it than you would the gas option. Just like the Lariat/Laramie trim has a higher resale value than an XL/Tradesman option and you get most of that money spent up front back. Would the Lariat/Laramie trim save you money in fuel along with the a higher resale like a diesel would?


Spending $5,000 more plus the added interest on the higher overall price for a diesel
to sell a vehicle for $5,000 more minus the added interest leaves one with getting
less than $5,000 back at resale.

spending more so sell for more 10 years later, incurring higher interest charges
is not smart financial planning.

ShinerBock

LVTX

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Posted: 10/05/20 07:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

32vld wrote:



Spending $5,000 more plus the added interest on the higher overall price for a diesel
to sell a vehicle for $5,000 more minus the added interest leaves one with getting
less than $5,000 back at resale.

spending more so sell for more 10 years later, incurring higher interest charges
is not smart financial planning.


I said more than $5,000 because you generally receive roughly 60-80% of what you paid for an upgrade back in resale. This goes for any option like the $10-11k high trim options, $3k on a 4wd option, $2.5k crew cab option, or even $2.5k going from the base gas engine to a premium gas engine. However, you never fully recoup that money spent on these options at resale and in some cases ,like 4wd and premium gas engine options, you end up spending more over the life of the vehicle due to lower fuel mileage and higher maintenance costs.

With diesels, you not only recoup 60-80% of the upfront costs like all the other options, but you also recoup it in fuel mileage as well. So unlike those premium gas engine options that cost $3-4k over the base engines and even more in the long run, with a diesel you get more power and most if not all of the up front cost will be paid back through fuel mileage if you keep it long enough or through fuel mileage and resale if you don't.

* This post was edited 10/06/20 06:54am by ShinerBock *

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

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Posted: 10/05/20 07:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

"2 brake jobs have been the repairs to date."

You must never use your Exhaust Brake running BobTail.


I just had the brakes serviced recently when it was in the shop for the AC work since it was already in the shop.


'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
"200k Mile Club"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"


32vld

LI, NY

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Posted: 10/10/20 12:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:

32vld wrote:



Spending $5,000 more plus the added interest on the higher overall price for a diesel
to sell a vehicle for $5,000 more minus the added interest leaves one with getting
less than $5,000 back at resale.

spending more so sell for more 10 years later, incurring higher interest charges
is not smart financial planning.


I said more than $5,000 because you generally receive roughly 60-80% of what you paid for an upgrade back in resale. This goes for any option like the $10-11k high trim options, $3k on a 4wd option, $2.5k crew cab option, or even $2.5k going from the base gas engine to a premium gas engine. However, you never fully recoup that money spent on these options at resale and in some cases ,like 4wd and premium gas engine options, you end up spending more over the life of the vehicle due to lower fuel mileage and higher maintenance costs.

With diesels, you not only recoup 60-80% of the upfront costs like all the other options, but you also recoup it in fuel mileage as well. So unlike those premium gas engine options that cost $3-4k over the base engines and even more in the long run, with a diesel you get more power and most if not all of the up front cost will be paid back through fuel mileage if you keep it long enough or through fuel mileage and resale if you don't.


Spending more money so you can resell used for more money is bad financial
planning. Years ago I was on a landscape forum where people pulled trailers
all the time.

Many were pro diesel. They could not see past that diesels had more torque.

They ignored that diesels cost more to repair and do maintenance.
They ignored that that the weight of their trailer, 48", 36", and 21" mowers, a back
back blower, line trimer, stick edger, gas cans weighed 2,000 lbs
They ignored that many of them of drove 5,000 miles a year to do their route.
They ignored that 90% of the driving was local low speed roads, not high speed
highways.

They ignored doing the math. They just recited diesels got better MPG.

Just taking the difference between the high purchase price for a diesel, diesel fuel
costs more than gas, combine these with driving 10,000 miles a year it would take
the diesel with better MPG to reach the break even point 10 years for the diesel
to paid back that higher purchase price.

How many people drive towing a camper, carrying a truck camper 10,000 miles
a year? I bet most people RV on the 500 - 1,000 miles a year.

A 100 year payback to reach the break even point is not worth it. To me a 10 year
payback/break even point is not worth it.

ShinerBock

LVTX

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Posted: 10/10/20 02:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

32vld wrote:




Spending more money so you can resell used for more money is bad financial
planning. Years ago I was on a landscape forum where people pulled trailers
all the time.

Many were pro diesel. They could not see past that diesels had more torque.

They ignored that diesels cost more to repair and do maintenance.
They ignored that that the weight of their trailer, 48", 36", and 21" mowers, a back
back blower, line trimer, stick edger, gas cans weighed 2,000 lbs
They ignored that many of them of drove 5,000 miles a year to do their route.
They ignored that 90% of the driving was local low speed roads, not high speed
highways.

They ignored doing the math. They just recited diesels got better MPG.

Just taking the difference between the high purchase price for a diesel, diesel fuel
costs more than gas, combine these with driving 10,000 miles a year it would take
the diesel with better MPG to reach the break even point 10 years for the diesel
to paid back that higher purchase price.

How many people drive towing a camper, carrying a truck camper 10,000 miles
a year? I bet most people RV on the 500 - 1,000 miles a year.

A 100 year payback to reach the break even point is not worth it. To me a 10 year
payback/break even point is not worth it.


So everyone who spends more money on higher trim options, 4wd, or premium engine options gets no value out of it and it is just bad financial planning? Huh.

My company has over 500 trucks in our fleet across 120+ dealerships nationwide. We analyze the cost of every vehicle for future buying decisions and budgeting. The total cost of ownership difference between gas and diesel trucks is generally less than $2000 even those is states with high diesel prices such as our California. In locations where the price difference between gas and diesel fuel is lower such as our Texas locations, diesel trucks actually ends up being the cheaper option. Hence the reason I have said multiple times in the past for people to do the numbers for themselves because the fuel costs, taxes, resale values, and so on will not be the same.

People often ignore a lot of things like the factor that even though the oil/fuel filter change on my Cummins cost $150 and the oil change for a 6.4L gas engine like my truck is $80, they ignore the fact that the 6.4L requires the oil changed at 8k instead of the 15k on my truck. They also ignore the fact that by the time most expensive items like turbos and injectors need to be replaced on my Cummins at 350k, the 6.4L engine will be long past its life.

So lets put your argument to a gas half ton engine upgrade like going from a base 3.3L to a 5.0L which costs $1,995 up front. The 5.0L gets about 2-3 mpg worse fuel economy than the 3.3L and it has a higher maintainenance cost so that the cost of ownership keeps increasing the longer you own it. The same holds true for almost every gas engine option upgrade in half tons yet I never hear any of the half ton guys talk about talk about a payback or break even point like the 3/4 and 1 ton gasser guys do when trying to justify their purchase.

32vld

LI, NY

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Posted: 10/10/20 03:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ShinerBock wrote:



So everyone who spends more money on higher trim options, 4wd, or premium engine options gets no value out of it and it is just bad financial planning? Huh.

My company has over 500 trucks in our fleet across 120+ dealerships nationwide. We analyze the cost of every vehicle for future buying decisions and budgeting. The total cost of ownership difference between gas and diesel trucks is generally less than $2000 even those is states with high diesel prices such as our California. In locations where the price difference between gas and diesel fuel is lower such as our Texas locations, diesel trucks actually ends up being the cheaper option. Hence the reason I have said multiple times in the past for people to do the numbers for themselves because the fuel costs, taxes, resale values, and so on will not be the same.

People often ignore a lot of things like the factor that even though the oil/fuel filter change on my Cummins cost $150 and the oil change for a 6.4L gas engine like my truck is $80, they ignore the fact that the 6.4L requires the oil changed at 8k instead of the 15k on my truck. They also ignore the fact that by the time most expensive items like turbos and injectors need to be replaced on my Cummins at 350k, the 6.4L engine will be long past its life.

So lets put your argument to a gas half ton engine upgrade like going from a base 3.3L to a 5.0L which costs $1,995 up front. The 5.0L gets about 2-3 mpg worse fuel economy than the 3.3L and it has a higher maintainenance cost so that the cost of ownership keeps increasing the longer you own it. The same holds true for almost every gas engine option upgrade in half tons yet I never hear any of the half ton guys talk about talk about a payback or break even point like the 3/4 and 1 ton gasser guys do when trying to justify their purchase.


comparing apples to oranges when you mention trim levels. talking in circles.

you cite numbers that apply to trucks that are driven 100,000 miles a year.
so these diesel engine trucks will reach the break even point in 1 year and
in the next 2 years of operation will save them money.

yet you ignore that most campers will drive 200 to 1,000 miles a year camping.
which does not even provide the opportunity to reach the break even point
after 20 years of driving.

todays gasoline engines go 300,000 miles. Chances are after 10 - 20 years
most times it does not pay to rebuild the engine because overall condition
of deterioration of the pickup/suburban to time and normal wear and tear the
truck one would be better to buy a new and better pickup that will have
more power, mpg, payload, towing, braking, handling, ride.

MPG is not the only factor in buying a truck.
30 mpg car or 5 mpg school bus, which is better.

bus holds 60 kids drive a 5 mile route, 5 mpg/60 students delivered.
bus used 5 gallons
30 mph the driving time is 6 minutes

car with driver can fit 3 students
car has to drive that loop 20 times, car drives 100 miles, used 3.33 gallons
car has to drive that 6 minute loop 20 times

goducks10

There

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Posted: 10/10/20 06:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OMG arguing about losing money on a truck on an RV forum. So lets go buy money sucking Rv's and lose more. [emoticon]

Grit dog

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Posted: 10/10/20 07:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We should change the forum name to DieselHaterz.com!!


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

Grit dog

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Posted: 10/10/20 07:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

goducks10 wrote:

OMG arguing about losing money on a truck on an RV forum. So lets go buy money sucking Rv's and lose more. [emoticon]


Sooo true!
Since I have a diesel maybe I should start telling all the gasser drivers with their depreciating RVs how dumb they are!! Lol


But I won’t because I don’t care and I don’t bash anyone for what they drive or own. Never have.

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