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 > SiO2 Battery -UPDATE 5 (Two Batts)

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BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 10/23/20 07:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DW makes her nachos in the MW. Not worth my life to have no working MW when it's her nacho time! [emoticon]

I had AGMs, but "batteries don't die, they are murdered" happened somehow, so it is wet 6s in the MH and an SiO2 in the TC for us.


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pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 10/23/20 07:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

noteven wrote:

I don’t use an inverter but I do camp in cold weather / cloudy conditions etc.

Do these batteries charge at the same rate or faster than flooded?

Lithium is off the table for me due to cold weather requirements. I could put one inside in the heat but I don’t need batteries I can wreck ...


They charge faster than lead-acid, but not as fast a LiFePO4.

My guess is that they also charge faster than AGM.

They do not require being charged to 100% full. It is best practice to fully charge them about every 30 days.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp hours of AGM in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 10/23/20 07:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

noteven wrote:

I don’t use an inverter but I do camp in cold weather / cloudy conditions etc.

I am an electrical dummy so I have a couple questions:

Do these batteries charge at the same rate or faster than flooded?

Lithium is off the table for me due to cold weather requirements. I could put one inside in the heat but I don’t need batteries I can wreck ...



My recent long post on testing the SiO2 covers the topic of faster charging. Quick answer is only a little faster to do a "50-90", and same time to do a "50-80". Faster in the 80-90. You only do 90-100 on shore power anyway when time doesn't matter.

Charging limit is 25 amps per 100AH batt, so I had to not use my 55 amp converter now that I have only the one battery. If you have two for 200AH, you can still use the 55 amper. (2.5 over on each batt won't matter)

Sounds like you would benefit just as well for more capacity when it is cold out with two AGMs inside as you could with SiO2s at half the price per battery AH. (not wanting to re-open that 80AH is 80AH, one =two thread again!!! [emoticon] ) And you can still use your converter on the 200AH.

BFL13

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Posted: 10/31/20 05:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

On whether an SiO2 is a Gell or an AGM:

"The "SiO2" is a lead crystal battery. I am not too clear on this, but it seems it is not a ""lead-gel", but it does have an electrolyte that might be similar. The idea it is a modified "AGM battery" comes from the separator being AGM -and improved from ordinary AGM according to this blurb:

"Lead Crystal® batteries use a new advanced type of AGM material as a separator. The AGM has much higher electrical conductivity, heat resistant and acid resistant abilities than standard AGM on the market. The crystallized electrolyte in combination with the AGM can effectively protect the plates and prevent the active material from falling off during use. The electrolyte is completely absorbed and stored in the AGM. Since the AGM is completely saturated with electrolyte then crystallized, no free liquid electrolyte will be present in the battery. The "battery can now be used in various directional positions without leaking."

Good info here!

https://www.gliderpilotshop.com/lead_crystal

FWC

The Wilderness

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Posted: 11/01/20 09:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Which batteries are you describing here? What actually is an SiO2 or lead crystal battery?

I know I have been harping on this, but so far no one has actually been able to explain what these batteries actually are, or provide any independent or academic description of these batteries or an independent assessment of their performance. It is just been a bunch of marketing materials and claims from the folks selling these.

None of the major manufacturers, or usual resources (Battery University, The Battery Reference Book, wiki etc) discuss these at all. It is weird that all of a sudden these are being pushed here and on a bunch of other sites with little to no actual experience or supporting data.


BFL13 wrote:

On whether an SiO2 is a Gell or an AGM:

"The "SiO2" is a lead crystal battery. I am not too clear on this, but it seems it is not a ""lead-gel", but it does have an electrolyte that might be similar. The idea it is a modified "AGM battery" comes from the separator being AGM -and improved from ordinary AGM according to this blurb:

"Lead Crystal® batteries use a new advanced type of AGM material as a separator. The AGM has much higher electrical conductivity, heat resistant and acid resistant abilities than standard AGM on the market. The crystallized electrolyte in combination with the AGM can effectively protect the plates and prevent the active material from falling off during use. The electrolyte is completely absorbed and stored in the AGM. Since the AGM is completely saturated with electrolyte then crystallized, no free liquid electrolyte will be present in the battery. The "battery can now be used in various directional positions without leaking."

Good info here!

https://www.gliderpilotshop.com/lead_crystal


pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 11/01/20 09:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC,

The owner of the sanidump site has a 'real life' evaluation of the SiO2.

https://www.sanidumps.com/product-testing-rv-batteries.php

From his site: "Results

After about a year (2020) of using the SiO2 batteries, I'm I happy with them - Yes! Having more useable power is great when the weather is not behaving, I prefer not to use a generator. I do have a lot of solar on the RV but I have been in situations where the sun does not fully charge the batteries every day. The extra capacity enables us to continue RVing in these poor weather conditions without the generator. I have been with friends when their RV had to be recharged, with the SiO2 batteries and solar I was able to recharge their batteries from my RV without using a generator and we continued RVing."

* This post was edited 11/01/20 10:02am by pianotuna *

BFL13

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Posted: 11/01/20 09:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC, MurrayM here had the same question. Interesting discussion, worth reading the whole thing for some good comments.

https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s4/silicon-dioxide-batteries-45315.html

FWC

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Posted: 11/01/20 10:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This doesn't actually provide any useful information on whether the manufacturers claims are actually true - as the review just rehashes the marketing claims. And the 'results' don't provide any actual data.

It is also a little suspicious that this 'review' seems to be used as a testimonial by the manufacturer, even thought the review doesn't actually provide any independent information and links back to the manufacturer. Is this guy another influencer? Who knows?

pianotuna wrote:

FWC,

The owner of the sanidump site has a 'real life' evaluation of the SiO2.

https://www.sanidumps.com/product-testing-rv-batteries.php

From his site: "Results

After about a year (2020) of using the SiO2 batteries, I'm I happy with them - Yes! Having more useable power is great when the weather is not behaving, I prefer not to use a generator. I do have a lot of solar on the RV but I have been in situations where the sun does not fully charge the batteries every day. The extra capacity enables us to continue RVing in these poor weather conditions without the generator. I have been with friends when their RV had to be recharged, with the SiO2 batteries and solar I was able to recharge their batteries from my RV without using a generator and we continued RVing."


noteven

Turtle Island

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Posted: 11/01/20 06:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Azimuth Solar has a couple videos up on u toob now discussing the composition and charging method for SiO2 batteries.

BFL13

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Posted: 11/01/20 07:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

EDIT--I see the 0.3C charging rate is at the 10hr rate! So that would be lower amps than if at the 20 hr rate for capacity (C is for "capacity) Hmmmm. More detective work needed! [emoticon]

It all appears to be a Dutch thing. That glider pilot link was Dutch AFAIK.
---------

Found something new here about fast charging comparison.

One guide linked before has a graph showing a 100AH being charged at 20 amps staying in Bulk till well into the 90s for SOC before amps taper, same as an Li's charging profile. BUT--

My test using constant 19 amps on my 100AH from Azimuth, had it start to taper at 87.5% SOC, so not like the graph, but still longer in Bulk than Wets or AGM, but not like an Li does.

I never got a proper answer why I can't use higher than 25% charging rate; just told it would be bad and don't do it.

So that makes this very interesting--- in the FAQ in the following link (new to me)

" Crystal Batteries™ can be charged up to 3C (In Boost for short periods) without any impact on their cycle life. This means they can be charged 2-3 faster than other batteries. Standard charging requires 0.3C for GRGS, GRLS, GRFT range and 0.2C for GREV Range"

The other description in that glider pilot link also says 0.3C, which is a bit more than the 25% Azimuth uses for "max".

EDIT---the .3C is at the 10 hr rate!!!! so that is about 91AH for a 100AH at the 20 hr rate, ( based on their 6v being 200 at 10 and 220AH at 20) Which makes .3C 27 amps, not 30, so that explains the 25 amps being stated as the "max" (IMO [emoticon] )

We also do not have a definition for the "short periods" you can use higher charging rates. So can I use my 55 amp converter or not? No way to know from this kind of information. [emoticon]

https://greenrhino-energy.com/crystal-batteries/

* This post was last edited 11/01/20 08:50pm by BFL13 *   View edit history

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