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Open Roads Forum  >  Truck Campers

 > Truck Camper Weight...I know, I know

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Bedlam

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Posted: 12/16/20 02:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The Dana 110 is 14k lbs, Dana 111 15k lbs, Dana 130 is 16k lbs. The Dana 80 loaded at 15k lbs was overloaded and prematurely wearing out.


Chevy Sonic 1.8-Honda Passport C70B-Host Mammoth 11.5-Interstate Car Carrier 20-Joyner SandViper 250-Kawasaki Concours ZG1000-Paros 8' flatbed-Pelican Decker DLX 8.75-Ram 5500 HD-Tank Urban Touring 150SE-VW TransBuggy 1200


Lexx

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Posted: 12/19/20 02:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I find this to be a fascinating but confusing subject. I have a 2017 F450 with the Dana M300 rear axles. The rear axle GVWR is 9900 lbs. The front axle is 6000 lbs. This is the same GVWR given to the axles on a F350 DRW. Yet the half-shafts on the F450 are noticeably thicker and heavier duty. The brakes on the 450 are 50% bigger than those on the F350. BOTH trucks are limited by their yellow payload stickers to Class III at 14k lbs GVWR. Yet the F450 is clearly a heavier duty truck. And of course the tires are a non-issue since the stock tires have a load limit of 3950 lbs and there are four of them on the rear axle alone.

I've seen posts from folks with really heavy truck campers like the Host Mammoth and big Eagle Caps, with wet weights in the mid-6k lbs range. Considering the typical Platinum F450 has a payload stick of about 4700 lbs, techically these folks are at least 1800 lbs over the payload sticker. Yet every one of these folks states their rig handles and brakes just fine with zero issues.

So what gives? These folks are obviously not lying. It would seem their heavy loads are perfectly within the capability of the truck they're carrying it with. Yes they're technically over the yellow payload sticker, but so? What are the consequences? Is someone going to prove that a truck with a Class IV truck suspension is so overweight that he is at fault for overloading his Class III truck?


2017 Ruby Red Platinum F450 - my kids call her "Big Red"
2018 Grand Design Reflection 28bh


Bert the Welder

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Posted: 12/19/20 02:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lexx wrote:

I find this to be a fascinating but confusing subject. I have a 2017 F450 with the Dana M300 rear axles. The rear axle GVWR is 9900 lbs. The front axle is 6000 lbs. This is the same GVWR given to the axles on a F350 DRW. Yet the half-shafts on the F450 are noticeably thicker and heavier duty. The brakes on the 450 are 50% bigger than those on the F350. BOTH trucks are limited by their yellow payload stickers to Class III at 14k lbs GVWR. Yet the F450 is clearly a heavier duty truck. And of course the tires are a non-issue since the stock tires have a load limit of 3950 lbs and there are four of them on the rear axle alone.

I've seen posts from folks with really heavy truck campers like the Host Mammoth and big Eagle Caps, with wet weights in the mid-6k lbs range. Considering the typical Platinum F450 has a payload stick of about 4700 lbs, techically these folks are at least 1800 lbs over the payload sticker. Yet every one of these folks states their rig handles and brakes just fine with zero issues.

So what gives? These folks are obviously not lying. It would seem their heavy loads are perfectly within the capability of the truck they're carrying it with. Yes they're technically over the yellow payload sticker, but so? What are the consequences? Is someone going to prove that a truck with a Class IV truck suspension is so overweight that he is at fault for overloading his Class III truck?


As to your first paragraph, in the epic saga of weight carrying ability discussions, that suspension axles, rims, and tires are at the forefront. Followed by brakes, srw vs drw, frame, engine ability, diff's, etc. And all lead to comparisons with the famous sticker. But mounting hardware for said components is almost never considered or brought up. What's holding the 30k pound axle to the truck frame? Or the truck bed to the frame? Lug nut rating? Bed sheet metal thickness? What grade bolts are holding the axles on?

As for your second part, yep......that is one of the great mysteries of the universe. According to some and the famous sticker on my 3/4 ton, my camper should have crushed my truck. I should be dead. Maybe I am, and I just don't know it......so is this forum hell????
Oh schit.......[emoticon][emoticon]


"> 1998 GMC 2500, 10.5 Okanagan, My better/smarter half, George and Finnegan(APBT), all I need.


NRALIFR

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Posted: 12/19/20 05:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lexx wrote:

I find this to be a fascinating but confusing subject. I have a 2017 F450 with the Dana M300 rear axles. The rear axle GVWR is 9900 lbs. The front axle is 6000 lbs. This is the same GVWR given to the axles on a F350 DRW. Yet the half-shafts on the F450 are noticeably thicker and heavier duty. The brakes on the 450 are 50% bigger than those on the F350. BOTH trucks are limited by their yellow payload stickers to Class III at 14k lbs GVWR. Yet the F450 is clearly a heavier duty truck. And of course the tires are a non-issue since the stock tires have a load limit of 3950 lbs and there are four of them on the rear axle alone.

I've seen posts from folks with really heavy truck campers like the Host Mammoth and big Eagle Caps, with wet weights in the mid-6k lbs range. Considering the typical Platinum F450 has a payload stick of about 4700 lbs, techically these folks are at least 1800 lbs over the payload sticker. Yet every one of these folks states their rig handles and brakes just fine with zero issues.

So what gives? These folks are obviously not lying. It would seem their heavy loads are perfectly within the capability of the truck they're carrying it with. Yes they're technically over the yellow payload sticker, but so? What are the consequences? Is someone going to prove that a truck with a Class IV truck suspension is so overweight that he is at fault for overloading his Class III truck?


I’m glad you posted that, because it reminded me of something I read just prior to the 2017 Super Duty model year about what new improvements we would see. What I remembered reading was something like “The F350 dually and the F450 pickup will use the same M300 axle, but the F450 axle will have more robust components inside.”

I went searching for the information related to the rear axle specifications in the F250, F350 SRW and DRW, and the F450 pickups, and found this:

[image]

In every measurement respect, the M275 is a heavier and stronger axle than the 10.5 it replaces, which was already a robust axle. Comparing the 350 dually and 450 axles is also very interesting. Although they share the same axle tube and ring gears, the diameters of the axle half shafts as well as the spline count show the 450 has incredibly strong axle shafts. Combined with the much larger brakes available on the F450 pickups, it’s clear to me that there is quite a difference between the F350 dually and the F450 pickup. It’s basically why I choose to ignore the GVWR on the F450 pickups.

[emoticon][emoticon]


2001 Lance 1121 on a 2016 F450


Kayteg1

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Posted: 12/19/20 09:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The issue is only confusing when it is moderated this way.
It doesn't take much understanding that what you earn and what you pay taxes on usually are quite different numbers.
So when truck manufacturer puts a sticker with 4000 lb taxable payload, doing your homework you can find out real truck capacities and in case of TC comparing rear axle rating to actual weight is 98% of what it takes.





jerryleejr

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Posted: 12/19/20 12:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lots of great replies waiting to hear back on what axel is in the truck...

JJ

Lexx

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Posted: 12/19/20 01:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What makes the discussion even more interesting is the same M300 axle the F450 has, is rated by Dana/Spicer for up to 16klbs depending on the application. Obviously there's more to weight carrying than just the rear axle alone but it is curious that the axle is rated by the oem much higher than the sticker from Ford.

I've also read that the true arbiter of payload legality is DOT, and they don't use the payload sticker. Is this true?

I've not read of any issues or accidents involving F450 pickups carrying these mega heavy truck campers, and the owners all seem to report that their truck handles the weight just fine.

Kayteg1 wrote:

The issue is only confusing when it is moderated this way.
It doesn't take much understanding that what you earn and what you pay taxes on usually are quite different numbers.
So when truck manufacturer puts a sticker with 4000 lb taxable payload, doing your homework you can find out real truck capacities and in case of TC comparing rear axle rating to actual weight is 98% of what it takes.


Kayteg1

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Posted: 12/19/20 01:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lexx wrote:



I've also read that the true arbiter of payload legality is DOT, and they don't use the payload sticker. Is this true?

I've not read of any issues or accidents involving F450 pickups carrying these mega heavy truck campers, and the owners all seem to report that their truck handles the weight just fine.


I had a discussion with DOT officer about those Dodge 3500 and F450 pulling double decker car haulers with 5-6 cars on them and his answer was "we don't have any reports about the procedure creating hazard issues".
Meaning DOT not likely is going to compare you door sticker with scale results. Only report about TC being put on scales come from British Columbia. I drove couple of thousands miles in BC and have never seen single LEO.
Go figure.

Bert the Welder

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Posted: 12/19/20 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lexx wrote:


I've not read of any issues or accidents involving F450 pickups carrying these mega heavy truck campers, and the owners all seem to report that their truck handles the weight just fine.


Unfortunately, that info would rely on 'people'. 'People' that dropped just shy of $200k on something and don't want to admit problems. 'People' that say their stock 1/2 ton carries their 5000lb camper just fine.

Bert the Welder

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Posted: 12/19/20 02:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kayteg1 wrote:

I drove couple of thousands miles in BC and have never seen single LEO.
Go figure.


This is interesting as something I've noticed. And I'm just theorizing here, not stating....
I wonder if there's more pull overs in the US vs Can for weight? I get the impression that local/State budgets are very directly linked to revenue brought in by officers writing tickets and that that money stays in the department that it's collected by. I'm not sure it works the same here. Perhaps less pull overs due to the fine revenue gets put in a bigger, general pot and doesn't directly affect the dept budget like in the US.
And again, that's just based on nothing but an impression I get.....

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