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Open Roads Forum  >  Travel Trailers  >  General Q&A

 > Conclusion made: 95% of all TT's are a crapshoot

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mr61impala

Versailles Ky USA

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Posted: 11/05/20 12:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:



Looked up sales numbers (these are overall for RVs. I couldn't find travel trailer specific):

Thor owns Keystone & Jayco and with other brands about 50% of the market

Forest River owns Forest River and Coachmen and with other brands about 33% of the market

Winnebago is about 8% of the market.

REV owns Fleetwood and about 3% of the market with other brands.

Gulf Stream is independent and under 1%.

Add in a bit of buyers bias (people who spend far more for a supposed better brand are less likely to slam that brand), and what you basically have is a survey that largely mimics sales.

I'm betting if you found the actual travel trailer sales, it would match even closer (ie: Winnebago is primarily a MH shop that does a few travel trailers. Keystone & Thor are primarily trailer shops that do a few MHs).

Without compensating for sales numbers and where they are drawing the survey population from, these numbers mean a whole lot of nothing.


I agree it's not scientific, it's a just poll of 3,000 RV'ers. I also believe that those with complaints are far more likely to participate.

I am currently shopping and my this was my take away:

Forest River represents 33% of the market and garnered fully 50% of the complaints.

Thor represents a much larger market segment than Forest River but had considerably fewer complaints.

Not sure if it will impact my decision but I believe the poll has value.


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scenechaser3

Northeast Florida

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Posted: 11/05/20 05:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have heard of warranty nightmares before, and how crappy these things are put together. I bought my TT 6 years ago, and the only trouble I have had with it is when it got struck by lightening; not once but twice. Other than that, I have never had any trouble with it. I do perform a roof inspection every year, and coated it once as a preventive measure. It is a 2015 Jay Flight 23RB by Jayco.


2015 Jayco Jay Flight 23RB Travel Trailer
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kellem

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Posted: 11/05/20 06:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The more volume of units the more complaints, simple math.

Look at Ford forums. Lol

bucky

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Posted: 11/06/20 04:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Drop the a and the shoot. That sums it up.


2005 Cummins 3500 2WD LB quad cab dually pulling a 2014 Blue Ridge 3025RL


valhalla360

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Posted: 11/06/20 06:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mr61impala wrote:

I agree it's not scientific, it's a just poll of 3,000 RV'ers. I also believe that those with complaints are far more likely to participate.

I am currently shopping and my this was my take away:

Forest River represents 33% of the market and garnered fully 50% of the complaints.

Thor represents a much larger market segment than Forest River but had considerably fewer complaints.

Not sure if it will impact my decision but I believe the poll has value.


I can't find the numbers but if you adjust for trailers vs other RV types, I think the production percentages shift.

Also, you are still ignoring the high end buyer bias against slamming something they paid a premium for because it was supposedly better.

Having done a bit of research, this is a classic case of Garbage In-Garbage Out.


Tammy & Mike
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Stclairm

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Posted: 11/06/20 09:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Like BMW, Mercedes, and other expensive car owners.

sgfrye

north carolina

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Posted: 11/06/20 12:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

I wouldn't count on the "high end" models being any different. Know some folks who bought a 2yr old airstream that was supposedly well taken care of and they spend a couple grand on floor repairs due to water damage.

That said, if you expect car level quality control, you are unrealistic. A lot volume passenger car may sell 50,000 units per year. A popular RV may sell 5,000 units...you can't implement the same level of quality control.

That said, once you accept you may need to adjust a few things, do a bit of caulking and keep an eye on things, it's really not that bad. Most issues can be traced back to not doing maintenance and ignoring issues while they get worse.


good advice here.
our first tt was a fr wildwood, current TT is a keystone laredo. both get ripped apart on negative comments and reviews.

had minor issues with both that i learned quickly how to diagnose and correct including some leaks due to bad manufacturing.

end of the day we have loved enjoying both units. make no mistake ALL units high end or low end will have problems.

Stclairm

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Posted: 11/06/20 12:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Such a love hate relationship. Not sure how car manufacturers make so many without very many issues and travel trailers can be full of them. I bet the profit margin on these is insane.

GDS-3950BH

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Posted: 11/07/20 03:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2012Coleman wrote:

Stclairm wrote:


Are there some brands under $30k that any of you recommend who stand behind their product and don't make the consumer regret their purchase? We're ready to pull the trigger on a larger TT, then sell ours, but man, this is disheartening. I will say my local mobile RV repair guy likes Forest River, so I guess he has no problem fixing them and getting paid properly.
Yes - Grand Design. I've had personal experience with talking at length with a manager on their customer support team. I emailed them about a problem with my awning. I didn't get a return email, I got a call. The awning was detaching from the side. The warranty was long over. But they fixed it - correctly at no charge to me. My friend had the same issue with his Alpine - just out of warranty. They would not help - sorry, but your warranty period has expired they told him.

GD sent me a recall notice about an electrical issue that could cause a fire. It is very hard for me to take off work to get it to the dealer who doesn't do intake on the weekend. They authorized a mobile mechanic to do the work at my storage location.

Others will chime in and throw shade on them, but myself and a lot of others will tell you different. Research the brand on both of their forums - PM me if you want the links or just Google.

I googled Grand Design dealers in NC and found a few close to you - Bill Plemmons RV World in Winston-Salem and Raleigh. Check them out. Go and tour a few units.

I can't talk about price as it is different depending on where your located and current market. I will say that I negotiated a substantial percentage off the MSRP and got a front bedroom AC installed as part of the deal. Also - you are in a good position to negotiate. You have multiple dealers in the area for the brand, you already have a RV you can use - so you want a new one, but you don't NEED a new one. This is to your advantage. Winter is here and that's also to your advantage. So if you don't get what you want, you can just get up and leave - leaving them with your phone number. Also, don't trade in before attempting to sell on your own - it will most likely sell if you present it properly.

And yes - they put their RV's together the same as other companies and yes, they may have issues. But beating their customer service is a hard thing to do. I'm very happy with it and fully enjoy using it.

Good luck.


Well good for you. I've had personal experience also talking with Grand Designs support team more times than I care to remember.

First on a 2014 Reflection purchased 2013 which was decent as 5ers go but not without issues, some sort of major such as new axles 3 times and two trips back to the factory. Grand Designs support was spectacular.

That led to the 2020 Solitude. What a piece of garbage it turned out to be. Grand Designs spectacular support went by the wayside with the acquisition by Winnebago. The 2020 was dumped after a little longer than a year of ownership just to get away from it and them. It had frame issues that I doubt could ever be corrected other than band aid fixes.

They turned into "just another name on a box of junk".

The first thing Winnebago did was pull the rug out from under what was considered the go to Grand Design forum, which is still independently operated but renamed to mygrandrv. GD had participated in that forum for years with lots of GD personel posting. Then they started two corporate controlled ones, GDRV4life and gdrvowners, so they could moderate the posts with mods they appointed. And believe me post in a negative light towards their product and posts are edited or deleted.

I used to drink the Kool aid but abstain now days. Plenty of buyers though purchased in the last 3 or 4 years still drink that juice, but Grand Design in 2020 is not the Grand Design it they were before Winnebago, by a longshot.

In any case I am done, and after owning over half a dozen over the years I'll never own another. Were almost done building a nice cabin on a large enough wooded parcel where we will never see another person or so much as hear their noise. You all can have them and I would argue that 99.9% are a crapshoot and a waste of money.

* This post was edited 11/07/20 09:02am by GDS-3950BH *

Vintage465

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Posted: 11/07/20 07:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Buying an RV is a pretty personal thing. There are some floor plans people want that aren't in some one's opinion of a better quality coach. And there are some persons that if anything goes wrong with their rig, then it becomes a throw the baby out with the bath water type thing. I've just come to the conclusion after being and RV Dealer and Repair Shop, that there is stuff that is going to go wrong. They are built speedy. I've been through the ORV Factory in LaGrande Oregon and it is certainly a production line, but it doesn't appear that they are throwing things together....yet things go wrong on coaches occasionally. I do tend to think when you see a ton of things wrong with one coach on all different levels then there is a real concern for quality. Then the converse thought is, if there is an issue here or there like maybe a leak where a fitting is snugged down enough....probably not worth selling the farm over.... I think it's great for the factory to strive for excellence and stand behind their coaches when things go south. And, as I've been schooled here on this forum....if no one says anything about the stuff that goes wrong, why would we think the factories are going to improve? Comes down to whether it's in your nature to be an advocate or not. I'm not. I'm not on a crusade to make all RV's better by publishing things that go wrong to try and squeeze the manufacturers into better quality. If I have a problem I can't fix, they'll hear from me. If I have a problem I can fix that appears to be pandemic, I let persons on the forums know for their benefit. Every RV can have problems from manufacturing or from component issues. If we can't accept that in our travels, then we probably shouldn't be in an RV. Pretty much I just want to retire, travel and eat my waffle at Waffle House.


V-465
2013 GMC 2500HD Duramax Denali. 2015 CreekSide 20fq w/450 watts solar and 465 amp/hour of batteries. Retiring in 2021, then look-out road, here we come!

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